Hoping that we won't go back to the "old" normal?

[MakkaPakka84]

I have been chatting to people and by what they are saying it seems the good resolutions made in the last two years are already fading away.

Limiting the amount of unnecessary travel, to save the environment? Some of my colleagues are already planning hop-in hop-out vacations for the whole of next year (20 > air travel trips per year).

Healthy work-life balance, more WFH? The return to the office is already underway and everyone is eager to be back.

I know the past two years have been shit, but I was hoping the pandemic would be a catalyst for positive change in some way. Now even those feeble positives are fading away.

@MintyMabel

We are all different and the best world is one where we can all make our own choices.

The best world is one where people don't only make choices that make them feel better, when those choices impact on others poorly.

If everyone just decides they love to travel and will do it whatever, the next generation and generations beyond that won't get to make decisions that are good for them as the planet will end up being even more fucked.

But, as we've seen during this pandemic, the selfish people will continue to do what suits them, no matter how it affects others.

That chucking around of the selfish word again.... 'the selfish people will continue to do what suits them, no matter how if affects others' .... implying of course people like yourself are completely public spirited/humanitarian/self-less/altruistic.....blah blah blah.... whatever..

Yes @GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam and one suspects that those bandying the selfish word around are quite contented to wfh and never travel anywhere.

You cannot use the excuse that just because someone did something in the past, you have the right to do it now. Times have changed. Understanding has changed. We will all have to reduce air travel, change our cars, our boilers, insulate our homes, consume less, and recycle more.

I don't drive. I don't have kids. I recycle. I live alone and only heat the room I'm in, when I'm in it.

I'm going to travel again as soon as it's possible to do so. I don't need the permission or approval of anyone on MN for that.

@Bluntness100

What do you perceive as positive change?

Positive change only comes if you feel negative about how life was before. Many people love travel and being in an office environment, so for them going back to that will be hugely positive.

You yourself do not habe to travel and you can do your own bit for the environment.

This!

Life is returning to normal.

BRING IT ON!

@worriedatthemoment

When people say wfh saves childcare do they mean as not paying fir the commute ? Or that they can have kids home and work as I can't see so many employers being ok with that once all childcare options are back. Plus if your working 7/8 hrs you can't look after kids as well unless you have flexi hrs and can work when they are out / asleep etc Most jobs don't have that flexibility though so most won't get this perk

Exactly. I can't do my job while looking after 3 small kids. No way. My boss was understanding when nurseries and schools were closed, of course, but not long term. What kind of bullshit job would you be doing it you could do it while herding toddlers like wild cats? Obvs different if you are a nanny or childminder etc.

You cannot use the excuse that just because someone did something in the past, you have the right to do it now. Times have changed. Understanding has changed. We will all have to reduce air travel, change our cars, our boilers, insulate our homes, consume less, and recycle more

I travel by air once a year at most. I won't be changing my car, I only bought it last year. Ditto the boiler. My home is a one bedroom flat with solid brick walls so difficult to insulate. I recycle as much as I can. I probably consume too much for some people but I don't have children so that's a pretty big contribution.

The sooner we can all get back to minding our own damn business rather than busy bodies trying to dictate how we should and should not live our lives, the better.

@Randominternetbitch

The sooner we can all get back to minding our own damn business rather than busy bodies trying to dictate how we should and should not live our lives, the better.

This!

What are people going to do when they no longer get to call people 'selfish' for enjoying perfectly normal activities?

We will all have to reduce air travel, change our cars, our boilers, insulate our homes, consume less, and recycle more

Covid is not going to make me sell my car, stop going on holiday change my boiler and insulating my home due to its age is financially in feasible. I will also consume as I please. What do you think people have tens of thousands of pounds laying around to do that stuff?

@Randominternetbitch

The sooner we can all get back to minding our own damn business rather than busy bodies trying to dictate how we should and should not live our lives, the better.

Exactly this. The pandemic brought out the best in some people but the absolute worst in a lot of others.

Some comments in here seem rather shortsighted. It's not all about present enjoyment, we must also think about long-term sustainability and future generations.

Climate change is a hard, undeniable fact. I don't say that, science does. It's not much to ask that we start living a bit more responsibly, to make sure that a healthy planet will be passed on to future generations.

So by all means, do enjoy yourselves, go on holiday, but if your attitude remains "I will do as I please and no one can tell me otherwise", than we (and most importantly, our children and their children) are all pretty f*cked.

So by all means, do enjoy yourselves, go on holiday, but if your attitude remains "I will do as I please and no one can tell me otherwise", than we (and most importantly, our children and their children) are all pretty fcked.*

Hang on. You said, and I quote, "I have travelled all over the world myself."

So it was fine for you to travel, but anyone else who wants to do so is 'selfish'?

And as for the 'our children' bit, I don't have any. If you have chosen to have childen, then you need to take the massive impact that has on your carbon footprint before wagging the virtual finge at others.

@IcedPurple yes, I did travel a fair amount, never super short layovers or meaningless stays though. Every trip had its reasons and was very fulfilling. I am not criticising travelling, I am criticising flippant travelling. Or useless business meetings that could be done remotely.

I don't go on foreign holidays anyway and I would love to continue to wfh

[quote MakkaPakka84]@IcedPurple yes, I did travel a fair amount, never super short layovers or meaningless stays though. Every trip had its reasons and was very fulfilling. I am not criticising travelling, I am criticising flippant travelling. Or useless business meetings that could be done remotely.[/quote]
How surprising that all the travelling you did was meaningful. Meaningful to you but maybe not to others.

And I don't have children but find it quite patronising when others choose to have them and then lecture me on how I need to change my lifestyle for them.

never super short layovers or meaningless stays though. Every trip had its reasons and was very fulfilling. I am not criticising travelling, I am criticising flippant travelling.

What's meaningful and non flippant to you may not be to someone else.

Who gets to decide what 'meaningful' travel means?

[quote MakkaPakka84]@IcedPurple yes, I did travel a fair amount, never super short layovers or meaningless stays though. Every trip had its reasons and was very fulfilling. I am not criticising travelling, I am criticising flippant travelling. Or useless business meetings that could be done remotely.[/quote]
What on earth is 'meaningless', 'useless' or 'flippant' (that's a good one!) travelling and who gets to define it? You?

If it's The Environment that you're actually concerned about, then it's of no consequence whether your trips were (subjectively) 'flippant' or 'fulfilling'.

Your double standard is transparent.

Dh being able to wfh has been brilliant for us. We have a severely disabled child and it has made our lives a lot easier because dh can be there for the morning and early evening stuff. I hope it stays for all those that want it.
I haven't seen my family but apart from that our travelling hasn't changed because we have kept up all the usual routines. We don't go on holiday anywhere so that makes no difference.

@Bluntness100

We will all have to reduce air travel, change our cars, our boilers, insulate our homes, consume less, and recycle more

Covid is not going to make me sell my car, stop going on holiday change my boiler and insulating my home due to its age is financially in feasible. I will also consume as I please. What do you think people have tens of thousands of pounds laying around to do that stuff?

Of course Covid won't make you change your life going forward, but climate change will. Governments will eventually have to implement punitive measures to ensure compliance with climate change objectives. Like it or not, things will have to change, and Covid has probably created an environment where it is more likely that government can implement these changes with more rigour.

To those who have no children. Yes, your personal environmental impact is lessened by being childless. Sadly though, you will be relying on our children to support you in old your old age, which is likely to be greater than your allocated 3 score years and ten. It's a balancing act, as so much in life. We can all only do our best.

Climate change is a hard, undeniable fact. I don't say that, science does. It's not much to ask that we start living a bit more responsibly, to make sure that a healthy planet will be passed on to future generations.

Sure, but I don't know why you decided that Covid restrictions changed the conversation around this. We were forced to stop travel, we didn't willingly do it for the environment.

I agree this conversation needs to start happening, but its important to factor in people's priorities. Travel will be very important to some and they'd be willing to give up other problematic behaviours to make it happen.

To those who have no children. Yes, your personal environmental impact is lessened by being childless. Sadly though, you will be relying on our children to support you in old your old age, which is likely to be greater than your allocated 3 score years and ten. It's a balancing act, as so much in life. We can all only do our best.

Your children might emigrate, be long-term unemployed, have a chronic illness or otherwise not make a net contribution to the economy. So it could be that in old age the 'childless' are subsidising your children, rather than the other way round.

And I don't have children but find it quite patronising when others choose to have them and then lecture me on how I need to change my lifestyle for them.

Same. Especially when they eat meat (of course their 'manly' DHs need lots of meat), have two cars, whack the heating on while wandering around in t-shirts... yet expect me to 'make changes for future generations' when I have no kids, don't drive, and very rarely even put heating on. Just back off and live and let live eh.

[quote MakkaPakka84]@IcedPurple yes, I did travel a fair amount, never super short layovers or meaningless stays though. Every trip had its reasons and was very fulfilling. I am not criticising travelling, I am criticising flippant travelling. Or useless business meetings that could be done remotely.[/quote]
"Fulfilling" travel I've heard it all now.

Flippant travelling for me. Can't wait.

I think the way forward is some kind of carbon allowance. That way people can prioritise for themselves.