Hoping that we won't go back to the "old" normal?

[MakkaPakka84]

I have been chatting to people and by what they are saying it seems the good resolutions made in the last two years are already fading away.

Limiting the amount of unnecessary travel, to save the environment? Some of my colleagues are already planning hop-in hop-out vacations for the whole of next year (20 > air travel trips per year).

Healthy work-life balance, more WFH? The return to the office is already underway and everyone is eager to be back.

I know the past two years have been shit, but I was hoping the pandemic would be a catalyst for positive change in some way. Now even those feeble positives are fading away.

We are all different and the best world is one where we can all make our own choices.

The best world is one where people don't only make choices that make them feel better, when those choices impact on others poorly.

If everyone just decides they love to travel and will do it whatever, the next generation and generations beyond that won't get to make decisions that are good for them as the planet will end up being even more fucked.

But, as we've seen during this pandemic, the selfish people will continue to do what suits them, no matter how it affects others.

@worriedatthemoment I think that's a bit of a myth. It's impossible to WFH and look after a small child (especially a toddler) without it being dangerous for the kid. I am still sending DD to nursery three days a week and have one day a week off work to do stuff with her, Grandma looks after her on another day.

When people say wfh saves childcare do they mean as not paying fir the commute ? Or that they can have kids home and work as I can't see so many employers being ok with that once all childcare options are back.

My child is 11. I'm saving a couple of hundred pounds a month in after school club costs. She comes home from school, we have a chat, she gets on with whatever she needs to get on with. I can't see my employer being pissy with that.

When she was in nursery, I worked 3 days a week and was home with her for two. My employer had absolutely no problem asking me to do work on those home days.

People need to get away from thinking work has to be done solidly for 8 hours between 9 and 5.

@MakkaPakka84 well I agree , yet even on this thread someone has said saves in childcare , so was clarifying how ?

I think there’s a fundamental misunderstanding in the OP.

I don’t believe many people committed to ‘good resolutions’. They were just trying to draw positives where they could, when cornered in a crap situation.

There are good reasons why people liked to travel and why they worked in offices. These reasons haven’t gone away because of COVID, though habits have been disrupted.

@MintyMabel but in some jobs it does have to be done then between 9-5 or 8-6 whatever , it totally depends in the job .
Some people couldn't leave to pick up a child etc during working day , so it varies between jobs and of course many jobs simply cannot be done from home

If people want to go back to the office, why shouldn’t they be allowed to? Why should they have WFH shoved on them just because some people prefer it?

@MintyMabel an 11 year old is very different to a 5 year old

People need to get away from thinking work has to be done solidly for 8 hours between 9 and 5.

Yes and no.

In the no camp, these are office hours and a period when people are available. If you work with people a lot, you’ll find that many don’t want to do presentations at 6am or 10pm, regardless of how that suits you.

Also, people need down time too. The double jobbing that parents were doing when schools were shut was fairly horrific. I worry that when people talk about working more flexibly, the upshot will be women (mostly) taking on more and more caring responsibilities and running themselves ragged balancing that with work.

I agree @TheKeatingFive , I need work to be in a routine. I prefer to work solidly in "working" hours, rather than having downtime during the day and logging on at night. And let's not forget that not working time during the pandemic was generally time to try to homeschool and that women - as usual - were disproportionately affected with the extra level of caring and responsibilities.

The only variation I do through choice on normal working hours was to split my break so I took half an hour to walk the dog in daylight in the afternoon. But I'm getting bombarded with meeting requests outside my core working hours and as the laptop is so handy often end up working extra due to spending work time fannying around on Mumsnet.

OP, you're making perfect sense by questioning the amount of air travel we need, whilst accepting people will travel.
Unfortunately on all things environmental, you'll always hit a group of people who take the approach "but me me me, but I don't want to make more green choices, what I want i get, if doing x,y,x suits me then I'll do what I like and get arsey if anyone points out the impact". It's always the way.

I had hoped that lockdown might have slowed the demand for fast fashion and mindless consumerism. Sadly, that's not happened because what we need more of is shopping, shopping and more shopping. In some groups people talk about this, but I'm sure if someone mentioned it on mumsnet they'd get told that questioning whether we need 52 new seasons of clothing a year, regularly changing our wardrobes, wearing items few times before discarding them is hating on poor people, with a helpful side of "but what if shopping is good for their mental health!!!" There's been some interesting studies on how many items of clothing people typically have, how much hardly gets worn, and how much gets discarded, but some people don't like to consider this because they need a new top that's fractionally different to the 15 other tops they own.

When people say wfh saves childcare do they mean as not paying fir the commute

MNers are obsessed with this. WFH saves on childcare because you don't need wraparound care. For example, when I worked in London and ds was small, I had to pay a childminder from 7.30am and then until 6pm.

When I WFH he went to breakfast club at 8, and I collected him at 3.15 and he amused himself until I finished work - we lived about 2 minutes walk from his primary school.

Obviously you still need childcare in the holidays but even then you may save money by only needing it for working hours, not commuting hours.

I'm really looking forwards to DH going back to the office. I have to mind the noise levels as he's on calls/ conference calls for much of the day and radio/ vacuum can be heard. I've got the delight later of potentially winding up my autistic child by having to break routine and take him for a walk straight from school to avoid the noise of us coming into the house as he hosts a conference, delaying our return until he's done. (Internal/ routine work isn't so sensitive.) We're fortunate that he's been able to take over the spare room, but the sound carries through the house and we lose that room for the benefit of the family. Not so much of an issue with current restrictions, but is a long term lifestyle change. Our housing and employment choices were not made about him WFH. I don't work at present because childcare is an issue for us, but WFH is not the solution to our needs and it's not practical balancing his professional needs in our childcare setting. Socially, he needs the change of scenery. We've ground to a halt on home improvements as there's no escape from the disruption. This was ok for a temporary measure of a few months...

Flexibility of working with mutual consent is a good thing. If people are more flexible about WFH part-time, that makes a significant difference on transport demand, and that's no bad thing. But it needs to be productive for business and people working in a suitable, healthy set up.

We will resume normal travel. We need to see family. We frequently camp/ weekend break in the UK, and occasionally have a European holiday (non-family). DH is finding site visits essential although these have reduced. International work is compromised as on site work is not currently viable. He gets sourced in where there is a lack of local expertise and as his work involves industrial scale energy efficiency, the benefit of the work vastly outweighs his air miles.

I've nothing against informed choices. But blanket impositions have wider consequences. (Wonders if DH's usual sandwich shop is still in business a year on... hopefully it will thanks to the primarily industrial rather than office based nature of the area)

I used to work 50% from home, now it’s 100%. That means the dining table because we don’t have enough rooms in our small apartment for an office space

Working from home in a crisis is not the same as working from home normally. You do not need to work from your dining table. In normal times there are loads of other options to work in if you do not want to be stuck in your bedroom. For example, libraries, co-working hubs, cafes, even parks or beaches! It depends if you need two screens or need to make loads of calls, but many people can work literally anywhere with an internet connection.

We have made some permanent changes.

DH now WFH three days a week means he sees much more of the children, has a better quality of life.

We have continued with our exercise routine and commitment made in the second lockdown

We are investing in terms of our garden and home, realising how important it is should we find ourselves back in a lockdown this autumn/winter. We are also looking after our immediate area more carefully as we truly value where we live now.

We have planned some amazing trips but only two, we will never know when it will be the last time we can fly. I am not taking travelling for granted ever again.

I am retraining.

Yes so it has had a big impact on us. I don't intend to go back to doing loads of exhausting socialising. Keen to keep some balance.

Yes the

Ah op I feel for you, I think you've been a bit jumped on and are handling it well with responses back.

Its really difficult. On an individual level of course people want to be able to travel, to work from an office if that suits them, etc. But on a societal level things need to change. If we the human race carry on in this direction then we are cruising for a bruising. I had hoped the last year would bring about some changes. The road noise on Monday suggests getting straight back into the rat race. I was quite upset actually.

As for travel: it's all about common sense. Family holidays? Fine. Going for a club night in a foreign country and coming back the next day, or commuting from abroad? A bit extra.

Who gave you the right to decide what is 'extra' or not? I'm single and prefer travelling alone. I have as much right to travel as the stereotypical family of 4 heading for a week in the costa does.

And I agree with posters above that you saying you've travelled the world but are now setting 'rules' about what is acceptable for others is a classic case of pulling up the ladder after yourself.

So many of us don't work in an office so absolutely don't have that flexibility (not that I would want to work in an office - did that for 15 years and that was enough), I manage a shop, clearly can't work from home or choose when to open the shop (well I could ... but might not have any customers . For those who can, and want to work from home ... fine, but my DH has been WFH since last March, changed jobs... but still working from home and will never have an 'office' to go to - he hates it and we are fortunate to have a comfortable home with a dedicated 'study'.

And the support from home workers is not always that good ... I have been trying to resolve a (minor) issue for over 6 months but trying to get any sort of response from the company seems impossible due to people working from home, on furlough, part time furlough, no one knowing who is responsible etc etc. Even in my own organisation trying to get support from a 'Head Office' that no longer exists apart from in people's living rooms is tedious beyond belief....

The one thing I don't miss is hugging but bring back everything else please!

I know the past two years have been shit

Two years? What are you on about? I started taking a lot of care late January 2020, but most people weren't overly bothered at that stage. Lockdown was late March 2020. So even if you say from 1 March 2020, it's still only just over ONE year. 🙄🙄

I think for the planet, mindful travel is important, both personal travel & business travel.

WFH I think where people can & want to it's a good thing and I hope management are a lot more flexible about this. It's much better for the planet, so if people can they should, but they need to look after their own MH too.

I can't WFH and driving someone around is part of my job so I HAVE to use my car, but I walk everywhere else & I hope more people walk, cycle etc where possible.

Sorry I can't remember the oysters name, but the poster who se commute is over an hour for 5 miles due to traffic, could you not cycle it? It's a bit far to walk, both ways, every day, but it's a short cycle.

It's one year OP. We went into lockdown 13 months ago do you often exaggerate?

So we've had 13 months of our lives being curtailed. We've also been faced with our own mortality and that life can change or end in an instant. I dont blame people on bit for a) wanting to 'make up for' the shite and sacrifice of 2020, and b) live and enjoy life while they can.

Its really difficult. On an individual level of course people want to be able to travel, to work from an office if that suits them, etc. But on a societal level things need to change. If we the human race carry on in this direction then we are cruising for a bruising
Really well put, and no amount of "but I want to fly for single night stopovers, why should I make any changes to my life" and jumping on people for discussing it is going to change this.

@IcedPurple

As for travel: it's all about common sense. Family holidays? Fine. Going for a club night in a foreign country and coming back the next day, or commuting from abroad? A bit extra.

Who gave you the right to decide what is 'extra' or not? I'm single and prefer travelling alone. I have as much right to travel as the stereotypical family of 4 heading for a week in the costa does.

And I agree with posters above that you saying you've travelled the world but are now setting 'rules' about what is acceptable for others is a classic case of pulling up the ladder after yourself.

But we are at the point now where things need to change going forward.

You cannot use the excuse that just because someone did something in the past, you have the right to do it now. Times have changed. Understanding has changed. We will all have to reduce air travel, change our cars, our boilers, insulate our homes, consume less, and recycle more.

They won’t be able to put the WFH gene back in the bottle so easily. And various analysts, Moodys for one, are predicting a 20%+ reduction in commuter numbers. This obviously scares the shit out of TfL and DfT but it’s gonna happen. The impact to commercial property values will be interesting too. Lots of Canary wharfs exe’s digging out their brown trousers

They won’t be able to put the WFH gene back in the bottle so easily.

Give it two years.

I'd say we'll be at 2019 levels with a wee bit more flexibility.

@Sparklingbrook

It's the ones that want to force others to stay in/restrict life that they want to live due to one or two deaths on and on and on that are really annoying

How can people ‘force others to stay in’ ?

By insisting it's not safe and wanting yet another lock down. We have all been forced to stay in an forced to give up whatever is currently not allowed...some would have us locked down for much longer if they were in charge/some of the ones in charge want to restrict what we do still despite the actual hospital cases/deaths/impact on the NHS reducing substantially...

I think it's a balance