Hoping that we won't go back to the "old" normal?

[MakkaPakka84]

I have been chatting to people and by what they are saying it seems the good resolutions made in the last two years are already fading away.

Limiting the amount of unnecessary travel, to save the environment? Some of my colleagues are already planning hop-in hop-out vacations for the whole of next year (20 > air travel trips per year).

Healthy work-life balance, more WFH? The return to the office is already underway and everyone is eager to be back.

I know the past two years have been shit, but I was hoping the pandemic would be a catalyst for positive change in some way. Now even those feeble positives are fading away.

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind
I agree, but feel whatever she said would get picked apart by those who don't see why they should make any changes.

I think about short car journeys that are easily walkable. Some people do need to drive them, plenty of us (me included at times) make them out of laziness. If someone said "it would be good to reflect on the number of car journeys we make and how many are needed/really we ought to consider the impact of our actions", you know at least a dozen posters would pile on deliberately ignoring the principle in order to argue that the poster is hating on (insert group here) or is being snobby (because that's a default criticism on here, just like "you must be jealous").

It's common sense that reducing air travel is important as part of a wider climate strategy. This means businesses who have found online meetings work don't need to return to endless short haul flights, and it would be good to consider our own footprint as individuals. But why reflect on that when there's the option to stick the boot into the OP?

I just think people should be considering whether it's necessary to travel so frequently, because of the harm it is causing the environment. I dunno, the past years has been so fucking shit, I'd like to at least think of a few positives coming from it and if it made people consider continuing some of the changes that the pandemic has forced in order to help the environment that would be a good thing.

It's always about travel though, isn't it? Usually the people who whine about how dreadful 'flippant' travel is for the environment aren't interested in travel themselves or, like the OP, have 'travelled the world' and now feel they have the right to lecture others who might like to do the same.

I don't have children. I don't drive. I rarely eat meat. I live in a smallish flat and have low electricity usage. However, I do like to travel and will return to doing so the minute it becomes possible again, however 'flippant' the OP might think that to be. And I won't feel bad about it either, both because I have a low carbon footprint in general and because travel is a vital source of income for millions of people. Those tut-tutting about travel should sacrifice something they love 'for the environment' before demanding others do the same.

I agree @IcedPurple that it's about much more than travel- I guess though if the thread is about continuing some of the more positive changes brought about by the pandemic, travelling has actually changed massively whereas the others haven't been so immediately affected, which is why it's being discussed.

@LolaSmiles agree with all you've said particularly on car journeys!

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

I agree *@IcedPurple* that it's about much more than travel- I guess though if the thread is about continuing some of the more positive changes brought about by the pandemic, travelling has actually changed massively whereas the others haven't been so immediately affected, which is why it's being discussed.

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'positive change'. For me, not being able to travel has been the single worst thing about the pandemic, as travel has always been my passion in life - you know, 'meaningful'.

Obviously from an environmental point of view, the less we travel the better but then, it would be best for the environment if we all lived in straw huts, if electricity, motor cars hadn't been invented and if the population of the world were not 7 billion and counting. But people tend only to 'think of the environment' when it doesn't involve making actual sacrifices in their own lives.

Essential car journeys are as subjective as travel.

I work 4 miles from the office (when we're allowed in!). It takes me 20 minutes each way in the car or an hour and a half each way by public transport. My other option is cycling but that's only safe in the summer - I don't fancy the towpath or unlit roads in the winter.

I'm certainly not giving up 3 hours of my day or risking my safety by giving up my car even though it's for short journeys.

So because we do other things that are harmful for the planet @IcedPurple, we shouldn't try to stop doing some of the other things that damage the environment?

I don't think anyone would advocate living in straw huts again funnily enough. Not great for physical/mental health. Don't know how we'd manage without electricity either. But is frequent travel as essential as good housing and electricity?

And maybe people are making sacrifices in their own lives? Maybe they'd like to travel more and choose not to or limit the amount of car journeys/foreign holidays they take?

I really quite liked my life before and I beyond pissed off at how it has changed. I want to travel more, not less - I already had a good policy of two days a week at home and 3/2 in the office. So for me I'd quite like things to go back to 2019.

But people tend only to 'think of the environment' when it doesn't involve making actual sacrifices in their own lives.

This is the crux of it. The OP is typical of the zealous converted. Keen that everyone follows ‘her way’ while glossing over the fact that she had her meaningfulfun in the past.

Climate change factors are multiple and complex. It’s natural that people value some things more than others and we should be looking at our individual impact holistically rather than focusing on just one issue.

So because we do other things that are harmful for the planet @IcedPurple, we shouldn't try to stop doing some of the other things that damage the environment?

Like I said, I don't have children, I don't drive, hardly ever eat meat and only use a small fan heater to heat my flat. So I already don't do a lot of the environmentally harmful things lots of others here do.

I don't think anyone would advocate living in straw huts again funnily enough. Not great for physical/mental health. Don't know how we'd manage without electricity either. But is frequent travel as essential as good housing and electricity?

My point is that we don't nomally view everything in terms of The Environment. We accept that many of the conveniences of modern life are not good for the environment. Or at least we do when it comes to things we prioritise, maybe not when it comes to other people.

And maybe people are making sacrifices in their own lives? Maybe they'd like to travel more and choose not to or limit the amount of car journeys/foreign holidays they take?

Do you?

I think very few people, when it really comes down to it, are prepared to make major sacrifices to protect the environment. The people who talk about how awful travel is either aren't interested or like the OP, have already 'travelled the world'. But how many of those people would not have children - one of the most damaging things you can do in terms of carbon footprint - even though they wanted to? How many would sell the car and travel everywhere by bike or bus? Very few I would think.

Why do some people on MN assume everyone can WFH? There are millions of us who can't. We don't all work in an office.

[quote MakkaPakka84]@osbertthesyrianhamster as far as I am concerned you can have a family with or without kids, that's not the point of my argument[/quote]
It's not an argument at all. It's you making value judgements on who should travel and how . Thankfully, you don't make the rules. It will go back to how it was because there is money and demand for it.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

I've got some flippant travel planned to the Florida Gulf Coast next year so just keeping everything crossed it can go ahead!

I'm going in July! I'm going to flippantly sail in a friend's parent's private yacht. I'll raise a toast, some Cristal in a crystal flute, to flippant travel!

By insisting it's not safe and wanting yet another lock down. But that's not ^forcing' anyone to do anything, it's just words / opinion @GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam.

@Foolintherain

Why do some people on MN assume everyone can WFH? There are millions of us who can't. We don't all work in an office.

I wonder this too.

We've only been allocated 2 desks for a team of 11 so will probably be wfh and rota's for a day in the office.
I'm a teeny bit sad that I'll never be in with all my team. But some of them are right busibodies who think they're Management so actually it's no bad thing.
I haven't flown since Aug 2018 and have no plans to restrict my travel✈️. Used to fly 2 x year.
Childs surgery meant we couldn't in 2019 then covid 🙄
People are selfish and unless there is a great personal benefit to stopping, they won't.
.

I'm going in July! I'm going to flippantly sail in a friend's parent's private yacht. I'll raise a toast, some Cristal in a crystal flute, to flippant travel!

That sounds amazing @osbertthesyrianhamster (I love your name BTW)! We're planning a few days on the Gold Coast, possibly Daytona Beach, then across to Clearwater and the last couple of nights in Orlando. I can't bloody wait!

Not enjoying the increase in traffic and subsequent noise, pollution and stress since shops opened.

@Randominternetbitch

The sooner we can all get back to minding our own damn business rather than busy bodies trying to dictate how we should and should not live our lives, the better.

Bravo!

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

So because we do other things that are harmful for the planet *@IcedPurple*, we shouldn't try to stop doing some of the other things that damage the environment?

I don't think anyone would advocate living in straw huts again funnily enough. Not great for physical/mental health. Don't know how we'd manage without electricity either. But is frequent travel as essential as good housing and electricity?

And maybe people are making sacrifices in their own lives? Maybe they'd like to travel more and choose not to or limit the amount of car journeys/foreign holidays they take?

I chose to have only one child and I do not own a car so I don't feel guilty about a few trips abroad a year. My carbon footprint is probably smaller than those who chose to have 2+ children and run 2 cars.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

I'm going in July! I'm going to flippantly sail in a friend's parent's private yacht. I'll raise a toast, some Cristal in a crystal flute, to flippant travel!

That sounds amazing @osbertthesyrianhamster (I love your name BTW)! We're planning a few days on the Gold Coast, possibly Daytona Beach, then across to Clearwater and the last couple of nights in Orlando. I can't bloody wait!

Can't wait! I've known my friend since we were 15. Her family's been a part of our lives since then, too! They became quite wealthy over the years and generously invited us as my father passed away late last year and they thought we'd like to get away and especially my mother. My parents loved cruising so this is a way to do that without a huge ship.

I had hoped we would learn from the last year and it would be the start of a change in lots of things: -
investment in mental health services both adult and child
rethink of child care provision and the roles of schools within this, teachers became childcare regardless of the mn chant that school isnt childcare what alternatives are there/could there be
education via remote learning more organised for those unable to attend regular school settings for whatever reason.
rethink of housing policy-provision/types- building of social housing- building of decent sized homes not cramped rabbit hutches
rethink of homelessness policies (accommodation was found for rough sleepers when push came to shove)
work/life balances to be more prioritised
alternatives to commuting- reduce car use- the lockdowns reduced pollution

@PostCovidNewMe

Not enjoying the increase in traffic and subsequent noise, pollution and stress since shops opened.

What do you suggest? All shops to remain closed?

@IcedPurple on the point of foreign travel I haven't been abroad for 10 years and as an adult (ie not going on holiday with my parents) I've been abroad twice but I'm perfectly willing to admit that is because it's low on my list of priorities that environmental concerns. I have two children, not going to be having more 😂 I learned to drive last year at the age of 32 and have a second hand car that I barely drive and wouldn't drive to the local shop. I don't eat huge amounts of meat and have been considering trying to cut it down further. I'm not perfect by any means but trying to be more aware- I think the pandemic has made me consider changes I could make. I've thought about going vegan for example, I'm not sure whether I will but it's something I've considered.

I think the point of this thread, as I read it anyway, was that coronavirus has forced such a massive change upon us with regards to travel/home working, and would it not be good for it to be the catalyst to consider whether we go back to travelling as much as before, given the change has already happened. There has never been an event until this that has forced a change like this so would it not be good if it were the catalyst for addressing climate change more urgently?

I too have noticed the huge increase in cars...not saying shops should remain shut, just that it seems odd after the quiet roads of the last year (minus the summer). I don't know what the answer is...