Who thinks Australia and NZ have got it right ?

[marilenagrace]

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

Are people generally still travelling interstate? My family is spread out across 4 states/territories but most have decided it's too risky to travel interstate from a snap lockdown perspective, so it's not just overseas travel that they've missed out on.

A few hundred people having to isolate after the flight from Perth to Melbourne is probably not going to change the perspective on that!

You are more accepting than we are then.

And there you have the difference between people down under and people in the UK.

@eaglejulesk

You are more accepting than we are then.

And there you have the difference between people down under and people in the UK.

Yes you are great

Why do you hang out on this U.K. based forum so much with your snide unpleasantness?

You are so angry sounding all the time. Aren’t you a bit happy about life yet?

Or is it just how you are generally

You are wrong. Australians travel overseas in huge numbers, as much as the British going to Europe. The difference is we go to Asia with Bali, Thailand, Pacific Islands, Singapore, New Zealand being our favourite cheap destinations, like Spain, Greece or France is for you guys.

Can you share the stats you’ve seen on this? Just a curiosity point for me particularly around tourism v travel - the stats I’ve looked at tend to focus around overall departures (which have Aus at around 10m a year and the UK at 75m which even allowing for population difference means the average Australian takes about 0.4 overseas trips a year vs 1.1 for the UK) but obviously these don’t disaggregate tourism from business and other travel, and I think you’re talking about tourism?

And there you have the difference between people down under and people in the UK.

I wonder which tidy box you pop Aussies in the U.K. into? Or folks like my parents in Australia who share many of my own concerns (clearly articulated on this thread so no need for any exaggeration 😀)?

It’s almost as if sweeping generalisations are a bit iffy.

@MarshaBradyo

Yes you are great

Hahahah it's true ! So great !

I could never live in Australia. Too many rules and too many sheep there.

@Alondra

The need to travel o/s is no where near as great as it is in U.K. distance also a factor. We’re easily accessible here and short haul holidays are relied upon in many ways.

You are wrong. Australians travel overseas in huge numbers, as much as the British going to Europe. The difference is we go to Asia with
Bali, Thailand, Pacific Islands, Singapore, New Zealand being our favourite cheap destinations, like Spain, Greece or France is for you guys.

Holidaying in Whitsundays is much more expensive than Bali or Phucket. For the same price I get 3 days in a Witsunday or 9 days in Bali except that I unlike Britain I have fabulous weather and super beaches in Whitsundays :)

Australians are one of the biggest travelling abroad countries. But we accept that in a global pandemic giving up overseas holidays is a small price to pay.

Its not "giving up overseas holidays" though is it.

Its a pretty much full removal of someones right to travel for any reason, Including visiting loved ones. I have had the same imposed on me and if it wasn't being lifted next week I would be seriously thinking about leaving.

@ButtonMoony Its not "giving up overseas holidays" though is it.

Its a pretty much full removal of someones right to travel for any reason, Including visiting loved ones. I have had the same imposed on me and if it wasn't being lifted next week I would be seriously thinking about leaving.

This is true !

Most people in NZ, and I imagine Australia, are happy with the way things have been handled, and yet some of you think that the government should pander to the minority

Same as Australia. I still remember threads with many saying Australia and New Zealand's economies were in deep shit because their close borders and yet, Australia is booming ahead and pretty much where we were before the pandemic.

The lack of understanding about AU/NZ in this board is truly staggering.

I did not say that anyone could have foreseen that one day travel 'would be made illegal', but there are many things which can happen in a person's life to stop them from doing what they have previously taken for granted and people need to factor that into any big decision they make. It seems most people these days think they can do whatever they want and then stamp their feet if things don't work out.

You are very foolish if you don’t think that when making these decisions people look at a huge range of potential events, issues, problems and crises and determine their mitigation strategies for them, backups for those mitigations, trigger points that would cause a change of plans, etc. My (British) husband and I thrashed all that out before I agreed that we would settle in the UK. It’s such a fraught series decisions - emotionally, practically, financially - that people do tend to put quite a lot of thought into it. We know what we’d do in the case of a sudden death, in the case of a parent’s decline or terminal illness, in the case of job loss or crap schooling or economic crisis.

Somehow we failed to pop in ‘illegal to go to your own country or for your family to leave it for a period of at least two years and potentially quite a bit longer’ into those calculations. Silly old us.

Australian here. I count my lucky stars everyday for the live we have here now, compared to the world.
It's such a beautiful warm country with friendly people. Economy is booming.
I'm doing a lot more domestic holidays, yes it's more expensive but I don't mind and every new destination still blows my mind that this is all on my doorstep.

I don't wear masks, I hug my friends, I do sunrise beach runs and have palm trees growing in my garden and windows open almost all year round.
Cut me off from the world, I don't mind.
Yes I have family overseas but they will visit after there's a solution to covid.

*life not live

@Alondra

Most people in NZ, and I imagine Australia, are happy with the way things have been handled, and yet some of you think that the government should pander to the minority

Same as Australia. I still remember threads with many saying Australia and New Zealand's economies were in deep shit because their close borders and yet, Australia is booming ahead and pretty much where we were before the pandemic.

The lack of understanding about AU/NZ in this board is truly staggering.

Don’t worry we’ve had enough lack of understanding and a fair amount of views on our situation from o/s.

Its a pretty much full removal of someones right to travel for any reason, Including visiting loved ones.

It's not ANY reason. It's a fucking global pandemic that has cost so far almost 4 million deaths. I doubt very much you'd be so blase about it if you or your loved ones were in ICU fighting for your lives.

One more thing....you don't have any rights. Whatever rights you have are giving by your government otherwise you are a frigging number like the rest of us. Your movement of travel can be cancel anytime by your government not granting you a passport....or by any other nation not accepting your passport.

Perth is now entering a 3 day lockdown. Gutted for my friend who is supposed to be getting married this weekend 😭

One more thing....you don't have any rights. Whatever rights you have are giving by your government otherwise you are a frigging number like the rest of us. Your movement of travel can be cancel anytime by your government not granting you a passport....or by any other nation not accepting your passport.

Interestingly the UNHRC begs to differ with you on the basis of international law.

We have a rules-based international system. Australia has ratified the UNCCPR. You’re right that the lack of a formal bill of rights or similar makes domestic enforcement of those rights extremely challenging. But it does not mean they don’t exist, or only exist at the whim of the government of the day.

We get that the majority of Australians don’t care much about Australians outside the country right now. That’s been made pretty obvious over the last year, and it’s absolutely people’s right to decide who is worthy of their care and who isn’t. But you don’t get to invent your own facts.

That's awful luck. It's a one case of infection spending 5 days in the community.

It's not ANY reason. It's a fucking global pandemic that has cost so far almost 4 million deaths.

It has been horrendous here but reading this makes me glad we’re moving to vaccinated and fully participating stage.

Just dialling down the fear factor. And the rhetoric around safe will go. By summer fingers crossed things will feel pretty normal.

Interestingly the UNHRC begs to differ with you on the basis of international law.

International law is only as effective as a government wants to adhere to it. The moment national security is mentioned international laws mean nothing. Australia had Tampa, America had Trump....independent of international laws, the rule of law of any country gets bypassed by national security interests. Which means that in effect, none of us have real rights. We may want to think so but we don't.

@Alondra

Its a pretty much full removal of someones right to travel for any reason, Including visiting loved ones.

It's not ANY reason. It's a fucking global pandemic that has cost so far almost 4 million deaths. I doubt very much you'd be so blase about it if you or your loved ones were in ICU fighting for your lives.

One more thing....you don't have any rights. Whatever rights you have are giving by your government otherwise you are a frigging number like the rest of us. Your movement of travel can be cancel anytime by your government not granting you a passport....or by any other nation not accepting your passport.

See, this is where you have lost all grasp of reality.

COVID doesn't mean piles of bodies.

I lost an elderly relative to it March last year.

I had it in January. My Husband and one of my kids had it.

The kids are at school today exactly as they were in 2019.

I am just home on the bus from shopping. Exactly as I did pre covid.

I am meeting friends for lunch, exactly as I did pre covid.

I am watching my daughter perform in a packed theatre in a few weeks. Exactly as I did pre covid.

No masks, no restrictions.

Everyone I know over 20 has been vaccinated. Everyone vulnerable or over 60 has had both doses.

From the week after next I can travel to UK with 7 day isolation on return. 4 weeks after that quarantine drops to 1 day, 4 weeks after that its free travel in both directions.

People in aus have no natural immunity. Your hospitals have limited experience treating COVID, you have no idea when you can come and go.

The rest of the world isn't in the awful state you think it is and Australia and New Zealand by continuing to pursue zero covid (which was the write thing to do last year) are in danger of getting left behind by the rest of the world.

@Alondra

Its a pretty much full removal of someones right to travel for any reason, Including visiting loved ones.

It's not ANY reason. It's a fucking global pandemic that has cost so far almost 4 million deaths. I doubt very much you'd be so blase about it if you or your loved ones were in ICU fighting for your lives.

One more thing....you don't have any rights. Whatever rights you have are giving by your government otherwise you are a frigging number like the rest of us. Your movement of travel can be cancel anytime by your government not granting you a passport....or by any other nation not accepting your passport.

Well said Alondra. Travel is a privilege, not a right. The way the words barbaric and inhumane are thrown around on this board with reference to inability to travel is bizarre. The situation re split families is shit, it really is. No one who emigrated here to Australia or New Zealand could have envisaged a pandemic and closed borders.

If we open the borders we will go down like every other country and our government - with a lot of support - is refusing to let that happen.
I can't stand the current government here and the vax rollout is a disgrace but our lives are normal now - I live in Vic, we had the toughest restrictions - and none of us want that again. So yes OP, I think closing the borders was right and achievable FOR US but I feel horrible for those who can't see their families. I couldn't see my daughter for 101 days even though she was only 30km away. I can't imagine that going on for years.

So Aus/NZ are waiting for ‘global herd immunity’. And by that point a certain proportion of your population will be vaccinated? (But not all) But the view now is that Covid will endemic in most countries. Though vaccines combined with a lot of natural immunity plus t-cell immunity means it ceases to be a problem.

This won’t be the case in Australia. They are relying on vaccines to bring them to herd immunity They still won’t be able to let any cases in? Surely for the next 3/4 years at least you are facing impromptu lockdowns with no notice. I think that’s quite a stressful way of living. We’ll be through it then. You still won’t be able to travel (though that appears not to be a problem for some).
To me that sounds quite restrictive for many years to come.

First, I don't have lost grasp on reality, I don't have Alzheimer's or senility. Don't be rude.

Australia will be opening borders by this time next year, with most of its population vaccinated, a booming economy and with less than over 130,000 deaths than you.

It's incredible. The OP is a disingenuous dig at Australia, and every time an Australian or New Zealander states, yes, we think we got it right, it's a like a red cloth to a bull, post after post of British crap against why we got it wrong and why Australian resident family members are fed up not being able to visit family back in the UK.

They CAN leave if they think they are in a jail. GEEZ.

Global herd immunity will be many years coming. 4/5 at an absolute minimum. And it may never be achieved.

Zero COVID isn’t a realistic strategy for any country in the longer term. Nice as it sounds.

@Alondra

First, I don't have lost grasp on reality, I don't have Alzheimer's or senility. Don't be rude.

Australia will be opening borders by this time next year, with most of its population vaccinated, a booming economy and with less than over 130,000 deaths than you.

It's incredible. The OP is a disingenuous dig at Australia, and every time an Australian or New Zealander states, yes, we think we got it right, it's a like a red cloth to a bull, post after post of British crap against why we got it wrong and why Australian resident family members are fed up not being able to visit family back in the UK.

They CAN leave if they think they are in a jail. GEEZ.

People have consistently said you got it right last year but have failed to move forward

Do you really, really, honestly think that 130,000 people died who wouldn't have died anyway? Really?

Has noone died in Australia or New Zealand in over a year.

You are obviously happy. As an outsider looking in it surprises me that people aren't more concerned about a lack of progress.

Telling people they can leave if they don't like it kind of sums it up for me.