Who thinks Australia and NZ have got it right ?

[marilenagrace]

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

It’ll be interesting to figure out what percentage of vaccination is necessary for a 100% susceptible nation. What will achieve the much desired herd immunity? hopefully the U.K. will be able to provide some data soon with a population that has immunity from both vaccines plus natural immunity, maybe in the 80’s percent double jabbed? Maybe more for Delta and then Australia will need to add a few percentage more. They can see what is enough for our population and add 10% or whatever.
Emphasis on cases in the media in both our countries has to reduce though. Covid is just not that scary anymore and really most of us understand this.

A key risk which needs to be managed in Australia and is not often spoken to, and which is very different to the UK, is regional and Aboriginal communities.

If COVID gets in here, there will be devastating impacts to our indigenous population who live within these communities. How this will be managed with border openings, I don't know.

Again, we need to see a strategic plan or roadmap of how we get from current state to living with COVID, but our government is simply focused on comparing our death rate to the UK and USA and advising this is unacceptable.

That’s such a good point @YellowMonday

There does need to be a strategy for this. I’m guessing access to healthcare would also be more of an issue for the Aboriginal communities? It really should be an issue that is addressed and prioritised.

Also isolated communities? So your towns in the outback need a different approach than big cities.

I think the need for us to eventually open up and let covid in (albeit in a more controlled way) is the elephant in the room here in NZ. We have done so well in keeping it out that there is a real reluctance to have that conversation about what happens post-vaccination. We are starting to get some glimpses of how the government sees things panning out though. Our DG of health has been saying for some time that we will need to learn to live with this virus which will become endemic. Another message we've been getting is that reopening borders will be a very gradual process. We have already opened to Australia and The Cook Islands. Singapore is already on the cards. I think the government has a plan but communicating that plan will have to be carefully managed as the public is generally against borders opening and is terrified of covid getting into the country. As a pp mentioned earlier, modeling shows we would need 97% vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. That is never going to happen imo. So it's going to be an interesting journey for us moving from that elimination strategy to mitigation. A lot depends on how things are managed overseas as well. The delta variant is currently posing a huge risk to our population imo.

The only ‘good’ thing about the current lockdowns is that has nudged some people that were on the fence about vaccines to want to get the jab. I’m hopeful that once we eventually get sufficient supplies of Pfizer that there will be plenty of demand to get it.

I wouldn’t say that the lockdowns have had minimal impact. The mood with the initial lockdowns was part fear and part willingness to work together to get through it. Hell, in lockdown number one I was one of those scared people that judged people walking too close to others and moved out of the way if they came too close. Now, masks are only ‘advised’ where I live (Adelaide) and I won’t be wearing one. I am pro vaccine though and booked my shots as soon as I was eligible.

I’m over it all. Over the fear mongering, the government incompetence and lock of any exit plan. Plenty of people are angry and frustrated. Especially in Melbourne where lockdowns have almost become a part of life. It most certainly isn’t a Covid free utopia over here.

Yep completely right. They perhaps need to speed up vaccine roll out. Am sure the plan is not to keep the world locked out forever but necessary right now. Would move there in a flash!

There is a lot of vaccine hesitancy because they haven't had to deal with the realities of how horrific unchecked Covid is. So unless they're willing to let certain cities literally crumble away because the tourist trade is dead, they need to figure out how to U-turn from an eradication policy to one of acceptance. They've cut themselves off from the world, it might seem nice for a while to keep Covid at bay but the population is terrified of it now.

The population is definitely terrified. But part of the reason the govt hasn’t hurried to open up is because the economy is absolutely booming from having us trapped here. The tourism economy is doing better than it was before Covid as all the cashed up Aussies are spending money here rather than on overseas trips. Everyone I know who is involved in the building trade is rushed off their feet with people doing home renovations.
In my family personally we normally spend around $50,000 per year on OS travel and instead we’ve bought shares and a new car.

@Ozgirl75

The population is definitely terrified. But part of the reason the govt hasn’t hurried to open up is because the economy is absolutely booming from having us trapped here. The tourism economy is doing better than it was before Covid as all the cashed up Aussies are spending money here rather than on overseas trips. Everyone I know who is involved in the building trade is rushed off their feet with people doing home renovations. In my family personally we normally spend around $50,000 per year on OS travel and instead we’ve bought shares and a new car.

I'm not terrified! But you're right about the economy. My DH is snowed under with painting and decorating and my own business did very well out of lockdown too.

I’m not terrified either but lots of people are. I’ve mentioned before that loads of people I know in the U.K. have had it and been absolutely fine and people are shocked.
It made sense for the government narrative to be that it’s incredibly dangerous because otherwise how can they keep the population following the rules?

Yes, the building trade is booming here in NZ as well! So many people are spending money on renovating instead of travelling.

This is all fascinating to hear. I'm sorry for you all. I think it shows that border controls and zero covid is not a long term, fool proof or sustainable approach. I hope common sense and sanity prevails for your governments in the coming weeks / months.

I have one couple in my family currently in Aus. They are very newly married. The wife's family is Australian, but they are both missing visiting the UK very much indeed. Sure a lot of people are in the same boat, missing family overseas.

(Although some others who dislike their families / MIL etc must be enjoying the respite in spite of everything )

@LibertyRose

This is all fascinating to hear. I'm sorry for you all. I think it shows that border controls and zero covid is not a long term, fool proof or sustainable approach. I hope common sense and sanity prevails for your governments in the coming weeks / months.

I have one couple in my family currently in Aus. They are very newly married. The wife's family is Australian, but they are both missing visiting the UK very much indeed. Sure a lot of people are in the same boat, missing family overseas.

(Although some others who dislike their families / MIL etc must be enjoying the respite in spite of everything )

I can't think why you're 'sorry for us' ! We're fine! As a previous poster said, some of us have had barely any upheaval at all. In South Australia we've had about two or three weeks last year where schools closed...and that's it!

Everything is normal. We feel very fortunate. Of course it might change...we can't stay in a bubble forever but as the population is so small and the borders shut on a whisper, we'll probably stay largely unaffected.

As I said before, we have everything we need...we grow a lot of our own food in Australia so no concerns there either.

Agree @FortunesFave - yes I would like to be able to travel again but we know we’ll be able to once the vaccines have rolled out. It’s very nice that you feel sympathy for us @LibertyRose but it’s really fine here - a few short lockdowns are really nothing to bother us, especially as we have so much outside space and no limitations on how much we can be outside. I think obviously some people have it tougher than others but this school holiday I’ve done an outdoor exercise class every day, played tennis three times, continued working from home, my kids have been down the local playground on their bikes, or played tennis, played out in the garden, done a few bush walks etc, it’s been quite pleasant to have a chance to relax actually.
Of course I want to see my parents again but it’ll happen and at least loads of people over here haven’t had to lose parents and loved ones to this disease.

They perhaps need to speed up vaccine roll out.

I am so tired of reading this. They can only roll out the vaccines as fast as they get them!!!!!! NZ is almost out, and the next shipment will arrive next week. When it was originally ordered Pfizer said they could deliver but the bulk wouldn't arrive until late July, and we are not there yet. I think Australia is in much the same boat.

They are slow on the vaccine roll out but I think their strategy has been better than U.K. in general and saved a lot of suffering.

Australia saved lives by locking our borders last year. This bought us time to vaccinate. This time has now been squandered by catastrophically poor leadership. We have only about 5% fully vaccinated and deep confusion about who is safe to have AZ. The state Premiers are almost at war with the Federal government.

In fact today we have 3.4% of our population fully vaccinated. Woeful.

Just under 8% (c/- the Guardian today) fully vaccinated.

The messaging in AZ needs to change in Aus imo. It’s a perfectly good vaccine that has probably saved tens of thousands of lives here in the U.K. alone. Look at the U.K., the AZ vaccine seems to be working better than the trials suggested.
Australia makes AZ so should use it rather than wait for pfzier to arrive imo.
Australia and New Zealand will need very high vaccine take up, much higher than here ( and we have high take up). Messaging from the government and media will be essential.
Singapore is talking about moving to a living with scenario and reduced testing and only counting hospitalisation rates. I think NZ in particular won’t be able to maintain this particular travel bubble in this scenario?
My cousin from NZ has plans to travel to the Edinburgh festival in 2022. I think they’ll still be quarantining etc over there then. They think they won’t be. We have a fifty pound bet on

I guess the issue is that yes it’s been fine for the past year as you’ve been shut away. But once you open up you’ll be dealing with Covid in the hospitals and maybe with further lockdowns for a while to come?

it'll take years for immunity in aus given vaccine hesitency is rife

My family there say most people under 50 don't want vaccine - not sure of actual rates but most countries wont have the uptake UK has and Aus will take a long time given covid hasn't caused an impact enough there to encourage people to take it

@Watapalava

it'll take years for immunity in aus given vaccine hesitency is rife

My family there say most people under 50 don't want vaccine - not sure of actual rates but most countries wont have the uptake UK has and Aus will take a long time given covid hasn't caused an impact enough there to encourage people to take it

Plenty of under 50’s very keen to be vaccinated - including me.

If anything I’ve met more vaccine hesitant over 50’s unsure about the vaccine than younger people. Most of here are sick of not being able to plan anything and being locked in our country.

@FortunesFave. Feeling quite sympathetic for those with family overseas when the AU gov has said even after vaccination, foreign travel will not necessarily open up . Especially those with elderly relatives etc. A year , 2 years , 3 may not seem long to many of us but of course it depends on the circumstance.

Also sympathetic to you (and all countries , including the UK) for any worries you have about your government failing to handle this properly in the common months. It can be very upsetting to see expensive and illogical mistakes being made .

Of course this all might be completely fine for you personally, but it really does depend on your set up

I'm in Perth and everyone I know is either partially vaccinated, fully vaccinated, or waiting their turn. I literally don't know a single person who doesn't want it, mostly because they want to be able to travel again. Some people are choosing to wait for Pfizer as the government messaging on the safety of AZ has been confusing and farcical. But I don't see why we wouldn't be done by year end, for everyone that wants it anyway, and then we can start opening up. I'm in day 3 of a 4 day lockdown in WA (zero cases today and yesterday) and people are queueing for hours to get jabbed, so I don't see much reluctance here at least. I expect the increase in cases caused by Delta will encourage vaccine take up in many people.