Who thinks Australia and NZ have got it right ?

[marilenagrace]

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

@Watapalava

it'll take years for immunity in aus given vaccine hesitency is rife

My family there say most people under 50 don't want vaccine - not sure of actual rates but most countries wont have the uptake UK has and Aus will take a long time given covid hasn't caused an impact enough there to encourage people to take it

personally i would disagree with this. My region opened pfizer vax to over 16s (16 - 50 age group at the time) 2 months ago - all appointments gone til sept - everyone is clammering to get a appointment. admittedly this is a rural/regional area (1hr from city) but I would say the under 50s are the least hesitant age group and kindly say you are ill informed.

@Delatron

I guess the issue is that yes it’s been fine for the past year as you’ve been shut away. But once you open up you’ll be dealing with Covid in the hospitals and maybe with further lockdowns for a while to come?

is this not the point of vaccines? i would imagine mask mandates and capacity restrictions would be more likely following successful community vaxxing. Vulnerable communities may implement movement restrictions (already seen in APY lands, on the Cape etc) And yes some people will end up in hospital critically ill but the vast majority would be ok (esp with increasing treatments available) - just like anywhere else in the world, post vax

It’s the same here @TheHoneyFactory - the queues at the vaccine hubs don’t suggest a lot of vaccine hesitancy! Everyone I know as well also has either been vaccinated (I know a lot of healthcare professionals), is waiting for their appointment (my husband and I included, both going next week) or are booked in over the next couple of months.
I don’t know many people in their 20s so obviously that may be different.

Oh and I’m in the north of Sydney.

Thats pleasing to hear @OZgirl75.

Vaccine rollout cannot run alongside though permanent lockdowns - it will take the UK 9 months to roll out to all over 18s. Taking into account the lower population verses supply and need for the MRNA vaccines it is a minimum 4-5 months to get Australia up with vaccines.

So how it is going to work concurrently - what is the mood for what is acceptable and what isnt. Rightly or wrongly it is clear for us in the UK we are accepting of flu type numbers and that there could be times that deaths hit 3 figures a day alongside daily life?

What kind of lockdown would be acceptable because Delta is a far harder virus to suppress alongside what kind of case rate.

I think we got right from the beginning and still do.

I live in Sydney and I've lived a normal life for the past year without restrictions of visiting friends, having parties, going to the pool, the gym, going to restaurants ....

For the first time in more than a year, we are having a two week lockdown and everyone is adhering to it. Considering the lockdowns in the UK and the fact people there can't still go on holidays abroad where and when they want, we've had it very, very right.

Just to make understand people in the UK what life has been in Sydney....

We are in lockdown. I had a face to face appointment with my doctor today, an appointment made two days ago.

In December I was told I had to go for a minor issue to the hospital requiring general anesthetic. It took 4 weeks from going to my doctor to get a referral, referral being faxed to the specialist, consultation with the specialist and procedure being done. All these considering it was December/early January and was Christmas holidays. I was on Medicare - your NHS, not private health insurance.

As I said, we are doing very well.

Alondra

I agree that the Australia approach has been great

But how are Australians going to cope with thousands of covid deaths each year given theres been so few now? Even if the entire country is fully vaccinated, thousdands will still die annually

How on earth will Australia ever accept that to open up? Is the narrative preparing people for that? Vaccines aren’t 100% and without restrictions there will be deaths every year which are higher than what you ah e currently had

Right now in Australia, the community outbreak consists of approximately 339 active cases - 27 locally acquired in the last 24 hours, and 6 from overseas arrivals now in hotel quarantine.

Meanwhile in the UK, 26,068 positive cases today; 135,074 in the last seven days.

The Aus exit plan may not be clear to random people outside of Aus health and govt task forces, but the suppression strategy has paid off well.

@Watapalava

Alondra

I agree that the Australia approach has been great

But how are Australians going to cope with thousands of covid deaths each year given theres been so few now? Even if the entire country is fully vaccinated, thousdands will still die annually

How on earth will Australia ever accept that to open up? Is the narrative preparing people for that? Vaccines aren’t 100% and without restrictions there will be deaths every year which are higher than what you ah e currently had

Will thousands? maybe but globally we might be looking at better more effective vaccines/booster in a year or so (with better supply too)

I would believe eventually much like the number of deaths from influenza are accepted (globally) each year.

Watapalava,

Same as any other country. We are a small country of 22 million and don't have the pull of getting the vaccines we need like the EU or UK. Australia made contracts with the AZ and unfortunately, AZ is no longer being recommended to the under 60s and most state governments refuse to give them to the under 40s. Which has created a problem. We don't have enough Pzifer vaccines, and won't have them until the end of the year.

Until then, we vaccinate over 60s with the AZ and sit tight until we have enough stocks of Pzifer and Moderna to fully vaccinate the rest of the country.

I get that but thousands die of flu so it will give similar numbers

For uk that’d be on average 20,000 a year upto 30-40,000 in a bad flu year for which we have no restrictions and accept

I don’t know your current flu annual death but you can surely see it’s goikg to be much much higher than the deaths you’ve had the last year

Hard one to get people to realise is imagine

As to deaths...

We've had over 900 deaths so far. Australia has done extraordinarily well containing its people dying.

I don't see this changing at all. We will open up borders more broadly (borders are not closed at all) when the vaccination in the country changes.

I don’t think you understand

When you open borders after vaccination you cannot and will not be able to then control cases

You will ah e to reply on vaccination

Even with 100% vaccination thousands will die

The flu programme has been going for years and thousands still die

You will never ever keep deaths to what you have now unless you don’t open

Flu and Covid should never be discussed on the same thread, they are different viruses. Flu has been around for hundreds of years, global populations have developed immunity and we have very effective vaccines to protect the vulnerable. Even with these protections we have flu deaths every year, Australia usually have about 50 a year which are expected considering age and lack of vaccination due to other chronic health issues.....

Covid is different. It's a new virus that has caused millions of deaths and have the potential to cause many more. Its a fucking global pandemic none of us have experienced before and the resources should be to stop people dying, stop getting long term health problems and manage the economy so people can lead normal lives.

This is what Australia is doing and doing quite well.

No one said otherwise

Australia has between 1500-3000 flu deaths a year so will likely have more than that if open to covid

That’s what government across the world are all now trying to get across to their residents

Saying Australia will open and have no huge rise in deaths is very naive that’s all

All I asked was is the narrative in your country changing to get people to accept that because if it’s not, like the quarantine buildings being made suggest, you won’t be fully open for years and years

Watapalava

Why will you think thousands will die in Australia with a 100% vaccination program when deaths in the UK are at a minimum with only 50% of their population fully vaccinated?

You make no sense at all.

We are not fully open and averaging 10,000 a year now

We are pushing to open regardless now

I’m just going off gov estimates who have said we have to treat it and accept deaths like flu

Our flu deaths are 20,000 in good year dispite annual vaccinations

All I asked was is the narrative in your country changing to get people to accept that because if it’s not, like the quarantine buildings being made suggest, you won’t be fully open for years and years

All you apparently want is for Australia to have thousands of deaths when borders are fully open irrespective of vaccination issues or the fact that we've managed the pandemic well.

More power to you.

@Alondra

Watapalava

Why will you think thousands will die in Australia with a 100% vaccination program when deaths in the UK are at a minimum with only 50% of their population fully vaccinated?

You make no sense at all.

As well as the vaccination programme, many people in The UK have a degree of immunity because we have had so many cases of COVID. There is a combination of vaccination and infection acquired immunity.

It’s aummer here too

Having said that, if you vaccinate 100% of the population with MrNA vaccines then you will achieve herd immunity. It's a (?impossible )mountain to climb to get those levels

As well as the vaccination programme, many people in The UK have a degree of immunity because we have had so many cases of COVID. There is a combination of vaccination and infection acquired immunity.

There is no degree of immunity in community for having many cases of Covid. It's a falacy. Please direct me to published research.

The only immunity with a new virus is through vaccination. It's the reason why polio hasn't been a problem in first world countries while still a problem in third world countries.

Some of you are talking crap, sorry.