Who thinks Australia and NZ have got it right ?

[marilenagrace]

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

Well said TheHoneyFactory

@HoppingPavlova it simply cannot be the case that you shut borders for a whole country on a long term (yes 2yr+ is long term) to protect a comparatively small group of vulnerable people as a preferable alternative to offering them a vaccine that carries with it a remote chance of a rare side effect. There are c 700k indigenous people in aus. If every single one was given AZ, on a statistical basis ONE of them would die. That has to be an acceptable level of risk (and in fact is for many other medicines on the planet)

That is just not how public health has EVER worked.

@eaglejulesk

Aus still haven't repatriated some of their own citizens. That is barbaric and I am honestly surprised the residents have stuck it for so long.

Oh do get over yourself!

I would be wanting to see a very clear pathway back to normal and some real commitments to getting the vaccinations sorted if I was living there.

But you don't live there, so a) you really have no idea what is happening & b) it's got nothing to do with you.

The thread title is "who thinks Australia and NZ has got it right" from the perspective of people who don't live there, as in our there things other countries could have learnt.

Would be a short thread if no-one was allowed an opinion or comment if they didn't live there!

That must have been really difficult @thehoneyfactory and also pretty scary given that time last year. I'm sorry about your family, I really empathise and hope things are improving here so at some point it'll be feasible to safely come and go.

[quote Flyornofly]@HoppingPavlova it simply cannot be the case that you shut borders for a whole country on a long term (yes 2yr+ is long term) to protect a comparatively small group of vulnerable people as a preferable alternative to offering them a vaccine that carries with it a remote chance of a rare side effect. There are c 700k indigenous people in aus. If every single one was given AZ, on a statistical basis ONE of them would die. That has to be an acceptable level of risk (and in fact is for many other medicines on the planet)

That is just not how public health has EVER worked.[/quote]
2 years is not long in a pandemic.
AZ is still being offered to those 50 years plus.

@IrishMamaMia

That must have been really difficult *@thehoneyfactory* and also pretty scary given that time last year. I'm sorry about your family, I really empathise and hope things are improving here so at some point it'll be feasible to safely come and go.

thankyou, it has been really hard. my kids miss their grandparents. but we are all safe and well (on either side of the world) so there are better days ahead to be had.

It is not “barbaric” to require extremely clinically vulnerable people to shield as an alternative to locking down entire countries and/or keeping hundreds of thousands of families separated across borders. This is what we do for every single other infectious disease in existence.

This is politically and morally fraught with our Indigenous population and would not work in reality. The only way to ensure it is to quarantine them by force and if you understood the history you will see why this will never happen.

Thanks to those of you who brought up the indigenous population. It's a complex issue that is easy to forget over here.

This gives you an idea of the impact on native American tribes, we cannot let that happen here:
www.brookings.edu/research/american-indians-and-alaska-natives-are-dying-of-covid-19-at-shocking-rates/

I've just read that Australia won't open its borders even after everyone has been fully vaccinated.

It means some people will never see their families again.

That's not exactly what it means. If read further into the available info it means that completely free and open borders are unlikely. It doesn't mean that the borders will be shut to everyone forever.
It will likely open slowly with less restrictions for some countries than others, and potentially occasional bans if certain areas get out of control.

*are unlikely straight away

@XiCi
Where did you see this?
And who said it?

Its been widely reported in the media today Cocogreen.

The health minister announced it

I guess they are going to have to be very careful for a long time. A fully vaccinated population won’t be possible and they’ll have zero immunity. So no boost there.

@XiCi

I've just read that Australia won't open its borders even after everyone has been fully vaccinated.

It means some people will never see their families again.

I expected this

Not sure how long it is planned to take though

That announcement is from a week ago, not. New development. See pics for further info

That's not exactly what it means. If read further into the available info it means that completely free and open borders are unlikely. It doesn't mean that the borders will be shut to everyone forever.

This is the problem, though, isn’t it - vague statements that can be interpreted in different ways depending on how people want to read them rather than a published long-term strategy.

That’s my principal criticism of the Aus government (and the U.K. one but they’re at least improving a bit, I’ve got plenty of other criticisms for them though) - they are letting this narrative run away in different directions because they haven’t actually set out what their plan is. Maybe they have one and don’t trust the people with it, maybe they don’t have one. We don’t know.

@JassyRadlett

That's not exactly what it means. If read further into the available info it means that completely free and open borders are unlikely. It doesn't mean that the borders will be shut to everyone forever.

This is the problem, though, isn’t it - vague statements that can be interpreted in different ways depending on how people want to read them rather than a published long-term strategy.

That’s my principal criticism of the Aus government (and the U.K. one but they’re at least improving a bit, I’ve got plenty of other criticisms for them though) - they are letting this narrative run away in different directions because they haven’t actually set out what their plan is. Maybe they have one and don’t trust the people with it, maybe they don’t have one. We don’t know.

Well maybe they need to be a bit vague because they don't actually know?

I'd rather we didn't rush it, and when we know what will work for, us then we can do it.

My dh is 'stuck' in Aus and is happy with how things are, although he'd obviously like to be able to see his family.

Well maybe they need to be a bit vague because they don't actually know?

I'd rather we didn't rush it, and when we know what will work for, us then we can do it.

Why does a strategy equal rushing it?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect governments to have high level plans for this stuff. What are the tests that need to be met? What are the variables that will be considered?

There is always the scope for a plan to change based on new information or unexpected developments, and decent public policy makes allowance for these.

I don’t think ‘dunno’ is good enough from elected representatives and public health officials, tbh.

And particularly when there is the need to agree a plan among different levels and political affiliation of governments, there is risk in not laying down and agreeing the principles relatively early in the piece when 2022 offers such an electoral playground.

My dh is 'stuck' in Aus and is happy with how things are
How long will people be happy though? One year, 5 years? Will they be so happy when the start missing weddings, funerals? When they can't see parents who are in very ill health, family members that are dying?
It amazes me how quickly people just give up their freedom and civil liberty, and not just in Australia, the UK government have used Covid to push through laws that would not have been acceptable in 'normal' times. Its frightening

@BootsScootsAndToots
Wow so he’s completely fine and happy to not see you or family for years?

I understand that it’s great everything is open over there and hardly any deaths. But what’s the long term strategy?

If it was like a time travel situation and we had to go right back to the start and do the whole pandemic over, with all the fear and uncertainty that entailed, I'd rather be in Australia. But if I was given the choice of switching country right now, now that I feel like the worst is behind us (could be wrong of course), I'd rather be in the UK. I'm sure there are many UK residents who've been more directly affected by the pandemic who would disagree, but that's my personal feeling.