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Who thinks Australia and NZ have got it right ?

999 replies

marilenagrace · 18/04/2021 11:06

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

OP posts:
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15
Northernsoullover · 18/04/2021 11:07

On the face of it it seems so. However wasn't there a thread from people living there who aren't loving it?

dementedpixie · 18/04/2021 11:08

At least we have a degree of immunity to covid whereas they won't have any unless they are all vaccinated.

No point wishing about what we could or should have done

marilenagrace · 18/04/2021 11:09

I feel like their borders will be closed for a very very long time. Even if everyone is vaccinated there- because of the variants.

OP posts:
Hazelnutlatteplease · 18/04/2021 11:10

Yes I absolutely do think they've done the right thing.

So does my aunt and uncle who live there. They look at the uk with complete disbelief

PicsInRed · 18/04/2021 11:10

The Aussies have said they may not be "able" to open even after vaccination. People were angry.

I'd rather be here.

MrBond · 18/04/2021 11:13

Wouldn't work here. Their regular, non-covid border arrangements were considered Draconian by many here. COVID restrictions? They'd never pass the law- too much opposition.

I also think (though could be wrong) that we're more multi-cultural and diverse than Aus. Too many people would be isolated from friends and family if we adopted that system here.

bookworm1632 · 18/04/2021 11:14

@dementedpixie

At least we have a degree of immunity to covid whereas they won't have any unless they are all vaccinated.

No point wishing about what we could or should have done

At least we have a degree of immunity to covid

Before vaccination we had barely any immunity to covid - only a small fraction of the population have actually caught the virus - and while their immunity to that strain appears to be lasting, Brazil has shown that it's almost usless against new strains with large numbers reinfected by the P1 variant.

Lostinacloud · 18/04/2021 11:14

If it was a virus that could be forever wiped from the planet then maybe but since that isn’t the case, I think it’s unrealistic long term. At some point they have to open to the world and depending on the efficacy of their vaccine program, it will have to do the rounds there too at some point. Then it will be interesting to see if they continue to live normally alongside cases or if their lockdowns and restrictions actually last longer as a result of the delay to exposure and their unwillingness to allow any spread. At some point the negative effects of lockdown and ongoing restrictions will start to fall the wrong side of the scale.
All of that said, if the vaccines are effective and at risk groups of citizens are vaccinated then they will have undoubtedly saved lives that would otherwise have been lost.

GNCQ · 18/04/2021 11:15

Well, to be fair to can't really apply the New Zealand model to the UK, because for a start they have a population (rounded to) 5 million.
London alone has a population of (rounded to) 9 million.

I absolutely 100% believe that England should have shut all flights into the UK during the first lockdown and eg not allowed thousands of Football supporters to fly in to attend a match in Liverpool, from a high infection country. Absolutely.

However, their rates are low, their population is low, I'm not sure the way they've gone about it is comparable.

ChocBeforeCock · 18/04/2021 11:17

Time will tell in the long run, but I think they have.

My brother lives there and lives an almost entirely restriction free life. He sent me a picture of him out in a crowded bar with a group of friends. Right now, I’d be there like a shot.

Obviously if they aren’t able to open the borders in the relatively near future, whereas we are by then living restriction free due to a combination of vaccination and natural immunity then maybe we will be in the better position.

We can’t forget though that 130,000 odd people have died from this illness here. I don’t think they’ll have anything like that death rate as they certainly won’t open without vaccines, and even if it does spread they won’t see loss of life like we have.

So while they may have stored up logistical problems for the future, they have avoided colossal loss of life from covid, and avoided inflicting the cruelty of lengthy lockdown on most of the population (I appreciate there was a horrible lockdown in Melbourne).

I should say I don’t think it would have been possible for us to do what they’ve done. But I think it was the right thing for them.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 18/04/2021 11:17

I think they did well in the short term but I don't think it's a good long term solution.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 18/04/2021 11:18

Essentially if they want to remain Covid free they will have to wait until the entire world is vaccinated before opening their borders as there will be so little immunity in their population.

starrynight21 · 18/04/2021 11:20

@PicsInRed

The Aussies have said they may not be "able" to open even after vaccination. People were angry.

I'd rather be here.

I live in OZ and don't know of anyone who is angry about that. A few people with relatives overseas might be frustrated, but most people seem to be pretty happy with closed borders.
bookworm1632 · 18/04/2021 11:20

@marilenagrace

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?
What NZ in particular did was fantastic for them and Oz have been quick to cotton on too.

While their exact approach would have been more difficult here, reliant as we are for example on cross border trade, it's a terrible mistake that we didn't try to learn any lessons from countries that got it right.

Take hotel quarantine - Oz had a number of early quarantine failures with their system, leading to minor breakouts that then caused extensive pain to shut down. When the UK finally set ours up, we didn't consider ANY of the lessons they'd learned, and built a system that's so leaky, it's frankly pointless.

Further on the subject of quarantine, while closing the borders completely was never an option here, just imagine if we'd actually stopped foreign holidays last easter, or at the very least, introduced a mandatory home quarantine on return.... the UK's first wave was so severe largely because it was seeded all over the country at the same time by returning skiers from North Italy - at the time a known virus hotspot.

So yes, the UK required a different approach to Oz, but it SHOULD have had an intelligent plan, and sadly it's taken them a year to come up with that.

metalkprettyoneday · 18/04/2021 11:21

Here in NZ we have had normal life mostly except not being able to leave the country , which is so expensive anyway that I only do it every 3 or 4 years to visit Uk family .
We had 5 a week lockdown last year and by week 5 I could see how hard it was for kids -not going to meet friends etc. I can’t imagine how tough it has been for people over there.
I’m glad we didn’t have to do longer .

SelkieQualia · 18/04/2021 11:26

I'm in Australia, and am loving it. Life has been nearly normal, aside from a short lockdown in March last year, and not seeing family who live interstate as often as I normally do.

wintertravel1980 · 18/04/2021 11:29

It might have worked for NZ and Australia - it is highly unlikely to work for the UK.

We are too connected to continental Europe. Even if we had closed the borders for tourism and travel in February 2020, we still have a constant flow of trucks (and truck drivers) entering the UK and shipping food and goods. Just the port of Dover on its own receives on average 10,000 lorries a day.

How many people remember headlines about Uruguay from the summer-autumn of 2020? For instance:

www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3575

Uruguay is winning against covid-19...

Unfortunately, closed borders only worked for a limited period of time. Right now Uruguay has got a higher case rate than Brazil.

Overthebow · 18/04/2021 11:30

Short term yes long term no. They are going to have huge problems later this year, their choice will be to open up their borders which will allow the virus in which will spread rapidly as they have no herd immunity, or keep boarders closed in which case no travel for potentially years. Their government has already scrapped the target to vaccinate by the end of the year, so there will be large percentages unprotected.

SelkieQualia · 18/04/2021 11:30

@MrBond

Wouldn't work here. Their regular, non-covid border arrangements were considered Draconian by many here. COVID restrictions? They'd never pass the law- too much opposition.

I also think (though could be wrong) that we're more multi-cultural and diverse than Aus. Too many people would be isolated from friends and family if we adopted that system here.

Absoloute nonsense. About 30% of Australians are born overseas, compared with 15% UK. We're just more heavily linked to Asia, rather than Europe.
HunterHearstHelmsley · 18/04/2021 11:33

Absolutely not.

In the short term, it may be viable. In the long term, it won't work. Covid will be doing the rounds for a long time, pretty much like flu. Are they not going to let anyone in or out for an interminable amount of time?

HolmeH · 18/04/2021 11:33

They’ve clearly got it far more right than we have. But it’ll be interesting to see how they cope long term.. maybe they are OK with closed borders for the foreseeable 🤷🏼‍♀️ If so, then they’ve done fab. But will it impact their economy etc badly, possibly.

We are like apples & pears really. You can’t easily compare us. But we were slow to respond & its cost us a lot of lives & a year of shit.

IcedPurple · 18/04/2021 11:34

NZ and Australia did what is right for them. However, their situation is unique and doesn't apply in the rest of the world.

bookworm1632 · 18/04/2021 11:34

@wintertravel1980

It might have worked for NZ and Australia - it is highly unlikely to work for the UK.

We are too connected to continental Europe. Even if we had closed the borders for tourism and travel in February 2020, we still have a constant flow of trucks (and truck drivers) entering the UK and shipping food and goods. Just the port of Dover on its own receives on average 10,000 lorries a day.

How many people remember headlines about Uruguay from the summer-autumn of 2020? For instance:

www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3575

Uruguay is winning against covid-19...

Unfortunately, closed borders only worked for a limited period of time. Right now Uruguay has got a higher case rate than Brazil.

There's a really interesting explanation of how this occurred - and it carries a VERY pertinent lesson for every country in the world that thinks it's winning.

www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210416-from-hero-to-zero-uruguay-s-coronavirus-boomerang

But over time, a false sense of security took hold and the population became ever more lax with masks and social distancing.

StartupRepair · 18/04/2021 11:37

In Australia we did the right thing initially and saved lives by shutting down. We have had about 1000 deaths from Covid in total. However our idiot government has completely stuffed up the vaccine rollout.

SelkieQualia · 18/04/2021 11:37

@Waxonwaxoff0

Essentially if they want to remain Covid free they will have to wait until the entire world is vaccinated before opening their borders as there will be so little immunity in their population.
No, we just need to vaccinate a good proportion of the Australian population.