India double mutation and red list

[Clotsaway]

This is worrying. They have all the variants present and a new double mutation of covid.

When will they be red listed? Sure as hell don't want the double mutation coming into the country. What's taking the government so long to ted list them?!?!

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/17/add-india-to-uk-travel-ban-list-to-stop-covid-coronavirus-variant-urges-scientist

Just read this.

I do feel India should be red listed but if it isn't then its wholly unfair that some countries have been penalised and put on the red list when they are a lesser risk than India. Time to review the system that's being used to "RED LIST" countries and be transparent about why they making it onto the "red list" and the scientific behind it.

The government was very lax when it came to the otber variants and we ended up going into loackdown. Although i don't think we will go into a full lock down, I suspect tiers may be placed in areas of where the variant is.

I think we certainly do need to have a much more flexible and agile NHS workforce.

It seems to me that any future covid outbreaks are going to be highly localised in nature- we need to have the ability to utilise NHS staff where they’re needed.

This could be done through an emergency secondment scheme allowing NHS trusts to draw resources from across the country when they need them. Which would help to avoid lockdowns.

Oi Johnson sling yer hook ...

Robert Peston
@Peston
Apr 17
Senior Indian politicians, including Modi’s cabinet colleague, have tested positive for Covid-19. Some Indian business leaders are refusing to fly to Delhi to meet @BorisJohnson
because of the Covid risk. His looming trip there looks increasingly unwise, as does India not...being on UK’s travel red list (as I mentioned yesterday). If
@BorisJohnson
does go, are he and his entourage really not going to quarantine on return? All a bit weird. Not sure trip sends right signal as UK tries to reinforce trend of falling infections

Importing potential variants of concern. Is that the trade deal Boris is after?

@savethegrannies

Hospital capacity seemed to be perpetually “at breaking point” all winter. It never broke did it? It never does. Perhaps NHS managers need to get on with their jobs instead of their constant moaning.

Talk about ill-informed.

Yes, it is all just 'moaning'

The virus mutates constantly. I don't get this new variant shit.

@vera99

Oi Johnson sling yer hook ...

Robert Peston
@Peston
Apr 17
Senior Indian politicians, including Modi’s cabinet colleague, have tested positive for Covid-19. Some Indian business leaders are refusing to fly to Delhi to meet @BorisJohnson
because of the Covid risk. His looming trip there looks increasingly unwise, as does India not...being on UK’s travel red list (as I mentioned yesterday). If
@BorisJohnson
does go, are he and his entourage really not going to quarantine on return? All a bit weird. Not sure trip sends right signal as UK tries to reinforce trend of falling infections

Presumably Johnson or his cronies are set to benefit from his trip to India in some way. One can be certain he is not going for the benefit of the British or Indian people.

@SpringTides5

I think we certainly do need to have a much more flexible and agile NHS workforce.

It seems to me that any future covid outbreaks are going to be highly localised in nature- we need to have the ability to utilise NHS staff where they’re needed.

This could be done through an emergency secondment scheme allowing NHS trusts to draw resources from across the country when they need them. Which would help to avoid lockdowns.

If the government hadn't spent the last ten years running down the pay and conditions of NHS staff particularly nurses then your suggestion might stand a chance. As it is NHS trusts have to pay over the odds for agency staff to fill shifts.

@jgw1

Tbh I think the government should look at amending NHS staff contracts to ensure they can be used where needed!

I appreciate that many NHS staff have worked hard over the past year and some have gone beyond the call of duty. But many others no longer have jobs at all due to lockdown measures.

We cannot have a situation where job-destroying lockdown measures need to be introduced in one area while NHS staff are refusing to come from elsewhere to support the local hospitals and increase capacity.

[quote SpringTides5]@jgw1

Tbh I think the government should look at amending NHS staff contracts to ensure they can be used where needed!

I appreciate that many NHS staff have worked hard over the past year and some have gone beyond the call of duty. But many others no longer have jobs at all due to lockdown measures.

We cannot have a situation where job-destroying lockdown measures need to be introduced in one area while NHS staff are refusing to come from elsewhere to support the local hospitals and increase capacity.[/quote]
Personally I'd prefer it if the government stopped worrying about feathering the nest of its cronies and got on with governing, which should include a decent pay rise for all NHS staff.
The job-destroying lockdown measures would not have been so necessary if the government had governed in a timely and sensible manner, rather than spending its time worrying about eye tests in Barnard Castle and so on.

I agree with @jgw1

We cannot have a situation where job-destroying lockdown measures need to be introduced in one area while NHS staff are refusing to come from elsewhere to support the local hospitals and increase capacity.

Really? You want to rip up the contracts of staff whom were "heroes" 12 months ago and give them much more difficult conditions to work to? You do know there are shortages of both nursing and medical staff and making staff working conditions worse is not going to improve things?

If you live in London will you be happy to travel to fort William on £25k a year with no thought to how you are going to care for you children or elderly parents?

It's political- the same reason France isn't on the red list yet and why the UAE were included.

I have just e-mailed my MP to say that it's absurd that India is not on the UK's red list for travel. One e-mail on its own will clearly be of no consequence, but if enough MPs receive enough e-mails from their constituents the issue will move up the political agenda. I would therefore encourage everyone who is concerned about this issue to drop a quick line to their MP asap.

@BonnieDundee

We cannot have a situation where job-destroying lockdown measures need to be introduced in one area while NHS staff are refusing to come from elsewhere to support the local hospitals and increase capacity.

Really? You want to rip up the contracts of staff whom were "heroes" 12 months ago and give them much more difficult conditions to work to? You do know there are shortages of both nursing and medical staff and making staff working conditions worse is not going to improve things?

If you live in London will you be happy to travel to fort William on £25k a year with no thought to how you are going to care for you children or elderly parents?

It is selfish of these nurses not to go to Fort William if that is where they are needed.

And I need a holiday abroad and am entitled to one because I am paid much more than a nurse so there.

It wouldn't be nurses going from London to Fort William. It would be the other way round. London is the frontline. The open borders and lack of real quarantine means all new strains including any of concern will spread through London.

Thousands of international arrivals (including soon, Boris) are arriving daily at Heathrow and travelling from there on public transport.

So I doubt the secondment plan will work. Where would the NHS staff stay? One of the reasons why covid spread so fast and has killed over 10,000 Londoners is because of the overcrowded but expensive housing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56792740

It has not yet been classed as a variant of concern. 73 known cases in UK (the extent of our sequencing is something we have very definitely for right) and only a couple not linked with travel. They quote an epidemiologist who says investigations need to be done urgently.

I suppose what this boils down to is whether we want policy made once there is a reasonable evidence base, or if we should act sooner because of what might happen

One of the reasons why covid spread so fast and has killed over 10,000 Londoners is because of the overcrowded but expensive housing.

Er, no. Overcrowded housing may be a contributing factor in close family transmission, but is not likely to be a more important factor than, say, overcrowded public transport and the transmission potential in places like shops. There are a whole range of reasons why London is a great place for viruses to spread, and housing is, sadly, only one of them.

Now, your point about expensive and overcrowded I agree with, however. But it was an issue long before Covid.

Tbh I think the government should look at amending NHS staff contracts to ensure they can be used where needed

This would be people who have homes, partners with jobs, DC settled in school etc.

It's not like the military, where you join knowing you could be deployed, and which has a significant welfare organisation, continuity of education allowances, Service pupil premium, housing support etc.

If you want to see a major outflow of staff (possibly becoming bank staff?) then go for this policy.

If you want a smallish 'flying squad' of HCPs who are willing to be deployed and for which there is proper relocation support, then that would need to be set up and staff recruited into the role

Actually @NearlyAlwaysInsane
The role of high density, overcrowded, and poor quality housing in the spread of covid, and in increasing the risk to somebody, has been well reported.

@savethegrannies

What would your test be for 'the NHS has collapsed' - bodies in the street?!?

For the following, the blame lies 100% with the government funding / strategy and has 0% to do with the incredible staff and managers who work for the NHS.

Waiting lists for essential surgery are off the charts which no doubt has and will mean people will die.

Life saving cancer diagnoses are terrifyingly low which has and will mean people will die.

Nurses and doctors are more likely to leave the profession than ever which adds to the spiralling consequences.

I have read numerous first hand accounts where HCPs were made to choose who to treat and how because they didn't have enough people / beds to do what they would have done normally. This meant people died.

All these people would not have died if the NHS was coping.

The NHS did and has collapsed under the strain and the fallout will continue for decades.

I agree it was an issue long before covid. Covid simply highlighted it (except that the government is trying to downplay it).

[quote SpringTides5]@jgw1

Tbh I think the government should look at amending NHS staff contracts to ensure they can be used where needed!

I appreciate that many NHS staff have worked hard over the past year and some have gone beyond the call of duty. But many others no longer have jobs at all due to lockdown measures.

We cannot have a situation where job-destroying lockdown measures need to be introduced in one area while NHS staff are refusing to come from elsewhere to support the local hospitals and increase capacity.[/quote]
This is such nonsense!

-You can't force people to sign these contracts
-NHS is struggling to retain NHS staff currently, you start posting people hundreds of miles away, they will resign

• NHS already using vast numbers of agency staff - you can't force them anywhere

-This would leave shortages where they were working - there is nowhere with surplus -Think of the military infrastucture to post people - housing etc -The NHS staff have families, parents to care for, partners with otehr jobs

Why can we not just have a functioning health service instead of having to run our toppling over (thanks to Tory underfunding) service like some bloody Dad's Army fiasco?

This would also be pretty suicidal politically I think.

[quote SpringTides5]@jgw1

Tbh I think the government should look at amending NHS staff contracts to ensure they can be used where needed!

I appreciate that many NHS staff have worked hard over the past year and some have gone beyond the call of duty. But many others no longer have jobs at all due to lockdown measures.

We cannot have a situation where job-destroying lockdown measures need to be introduced in one area while NHS staff are refusing to come from elsewhere to support the local hospitals and increase capacity.[/quote]
Have you considered that perhaps it was an error for successive governments to consistently reduce the number of hospital beds? The Kings fund state that the number of hospital beds in the UK fell from 299400 in 1988 to 141,000 in 2020. Whilst other European countries also saw a reduction in the number of hospital beds, the numbers are not so dramatic as in the UK.

You couldn't make it up, could you.
The response to an increasing population was to reduce hospital beds...