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45-49s jabs news, 40-44s watching and waiting thread

999 replies

MRex · 14/04/2021 15:54

Follow-on to the happy thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4210673-Can-the-40-49-age-group-now-book-their-vaccine.

(I'm jabbed, but just here to read happy news of jabs and try to book DH when it's his time.)

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 18/04/2021 16:50

It feels deja vu. Each time before the very worse comes (possibly because of better organised swifter testing) data shows other areas with higher cases than London, which has lower figures partly because it's being reported as individual boroughs rather than a whole city. Despite, as Sadiq Khan says, being very interlinked.

And each time people insist it won't be as bad in London as other places. Each time they've been wrong and it's actually been worse than most other places, but when that happens there's a shrug and it's dismissed as something inevitable that everyone knew would happen (previous denials excepting).

It's in London where the SA strain has been found. It will be London that Boris brings the Indian variant of concern back to.

We shall see. Perhaps this time round I'm wrong.

user34254356 · 18/04/2021 16:51

@EasterIssland good point, but there is no redirection of vaccines to London anyway? I think everyone will have access to them and absolutely if Yorkshire vaccination rates are much lower than agree to give up my vaccine for the greater good. I am not sure though if the vaccine supplies are being adjusted in real time. An algorithm could be easily defined to do that. It's not very complex, but presume due to incoming supply issues it's more complex to set it up.

EasterIssland · 18/04/2021 16:54

[quote user34254356]@EasterIssland good point, but there is no redirection of vaccines to London anyway? I think everyone will have access to them and absolutely if Yorkshire vaccination rates are much lower than agree to give up my vaccine for the greater good. I am not sure though if the vaccine supplies are being adjusted in real time. An algorithm could be easily defined to do that. It's not very complex, but presume due to incoming supply issues it's more complex to set it up. [/quote]
As mentioned the algorithm that predicts your chances of catching the virus and dying of it keeps updating quite often and this takes into account the postcode

user34254356 · 18/04/2021 17:01

Can you share a link?

So there is a real time algorithm which take account of your chance of dying (presumably based on currently case rate) and directs vaccines to those areas?

What does "keeps updating quite often" mean? There presumably must be a regular frequency, otherwise it's almost adhoc and subject to human intervention to trigger those updates?

I had read fairly early that there were low supplies to London because presumably your algorithm above missed that GP practices in London are much larger than in other regions and so they received a lower allocation. Has the algorithm corrected for this now and also takes into account the size of the practice?

Are you working on this algorithm? Great to hear that there is something more scientific behind the allocations

EasterIssland · 18/04/2021 17:13

@user34254356

Can you share a link?

So there is a real time algorithm which take account of your chance of dying (presumably based on currently case rate) and directs vaccines to those areas?

What does "keeps updating quite often" mean? There presumably must be a regular frequency, otherwise it's almost adhoc and subject to human intervention to trigger those updates?

I had read fairly early that there were low supplies to London because presumably your algorithm above missed that GP practices in London are much larger than in other regions and so they received a lower allocation. Has the algorithm corrected for this now and also takes into account the size of the practice?

Are you working on this algorithm? Great to hear that there is something more scientific behind the allocations

You can use qCOVID which has been developed by Oxford university.

This is the postcode bit “The Townsend score is a measure of material deprivation based on the area where a person lives and obtained using their postcode. It includes four variables obtained from census data: unemployment (lack of material resources and insecurity), overcrowding (material living conditions), lack of owner-occupied accommodation (a proxy indicator of wealth) and lack of car ownership (a proxy indicator of income).

I know many areas of London have got higher scores than others so this will take it into account .

I also know that it takes care of the values from the last 90 days and that’s where it gives the score of riskiness.I believe it’s been updated twice this year

This algorithm is used by jcvi /nhs to decide a vaccination plan.

I’m not working on the algo but my work is related with it

I’m sorry some areas of London are being currently affected. But as mentioned just because you reas that some areas are in their 20s doesn’t meant the whole area is. There is still loads of people that needs to be vaccinated everywhere

WombatChocolate · 18/04/2021 17:34

It’s still difficult to know how many under 45s or under40s are being offered in each area. Usually these are individual GPs who had supply before 12 April, as GPs we’re told no new supply being delivered for 1st does until 26 April. Most 1st doses are being delivered via the national booking system which is offering to 45+ currently.

GPs have been to,d in the JCVI guidance of last week that they can be a bit more flexible in rollout. As well as rolling out to all 45+ not yet jabbed and trying again to reach those who’ve turned it down or not been reached, they have been told to prioritise men and men in occupations that meant they needed to leave the house to go to work throughout lockdown, and those with BMI over 30 and those in areas of deprivation. There are areas outside LOndon with extreme deprivation and also hesitancy in some groups, who really need to rollout to younger groups if they have the supply to boost the geographical areas immunity. They have lots of high BMI and people in those at risk occupations who’ve been at work throughout and those on low incomes. Covid is becoming a disease concentrated in poor areas.

London is so diverse. There are areas of deprivation and the. Areas of affluence right next door. Even within wards, there can be big differences and the figures for a borough can mask significant differences. There does seem to be a push to rollout in some areas of London too, to those who are younger, but not to all areas.

The JCVI advice says that the way to reach most more at risk most quickly is still to use an age based approach because its operationally simple. Within that GPs can prioritise people, if they have supply and they are encouraged to strongly encourage those with the risks I mentioned above to take the jab as soon as it’s available.

For people who’ve been offered it earlier than the national age cohort being jabbed, although it’s nice for them, it may well reflect some th) g about their area...their area generally has lower take up and more deprivation and is more at risk. Although it’s frustrating for areas who feel they are ‘behind’ they’re only behind in the sense of not having moved belo 45s now and that is probably a sign that the risk in that area is less. Often it hat particular area the take up has been higher and that’s partly why there isn’t enough left over to offer to younger people.

These more affluent areas with higher take up, where MNetters are frustrated with having to wait a bit longer, are likely to ultimately be the areas where Covid is reduced significantly and doesn’t linger as a stubborn problem. It’s actually the areas that have been able to push ahead because of lower take up amongst older groups who in the longer term are likely to see Covid stubbornly loitering there.

The figures we will all want tos we and need to see will be the take up rates once we get to perhaps August and again in October when everyone could have had 2nd jabs. Amongst younger people in these more deprived areas, take up will in all likelihood struggle. It’s a key reason to jab them sooner if they are keen for it. The overall figures at the end of the rollout will show regional variations and there will be some correlation to Covid levels in those areas. The difference is unavoidable, but by rolling out faster to younger groups in those areas, they are consciously trying to mitigate some of those problems and minimise them.

I don’t agree about asking GPs to shift their supplies to areas which haven’t yet jabbed 40s. For one thing, no GPs actually have high supplies for 1st jabs at the moment. The total figure decline for 1st jabs shows that. The gains, I don’t think would be outweighed by the downsides of doing this...both operationally and in terms of speed and. Booking ahead, but also in terms of the fact there is a plan to rollout these limited extra supplies where they exist, in areas of lower uptake to the yiunger population to boost local herd immunity, which will be lost if they are diverted.

It probably isn’t popular to say this, but middle class women in their early 40s who have been carefully observing distancing and other restrictions, really aren’t those most at risk of hospitalisation and dying from Covid and actually aren’t those most needing the jab. Yes there is a risk of long Covid, but the risks of this need to be weighed against the risks of those who can be hospitalised and perhaps die....much more likely for men and especially for those men in deprived areas with high BMI and going out to work in places where distancing hasn’t been the best and perhaps there is more overcrowding in living. If they get the jab sooner in their early 40s or late 30s, it is no bad thing,

WombatChocolate · 18/04/2021 17:41

Yes, people on here report some of the extreme cases of 20S being jabbed etc. People then make the leap to that area jabbing all 20s.

When you’re waiting and very interested in this, it feels every other area is ahead and only your own is sticking rigidly to the age guidelines. I know....because I followed rigidly and felt like that too. The reports of 30s take on greater significance in your mind, when you are 42 and haven’t been called yet. But 40-45 haven’t officially been called yet. Supply for 1st doses is very limited. The amount of 1st jabs alone mean it’s impossible that most 30s have been offered it anyway. So I think there’s an issue with us not knowing exactly what is going on or exactly where the earlier rollouts of spare vaccine are happening....and we often imagine it in a wider area than it is. If we knew the characteristics of those narrower areas and some of those people being given it, it would probably make a bit more sense....but not totally becaue sometimes it is a case of having supply that just needs to be given to someone quickly at the end of the day or by tomorrow and doing that makes more sense than looking to organise transfers to other places....logistically in terms of knowing who to give them to and prioritising and organising would be a big effort and logistically very hard and need to be organised centrally rather than locally to make it fair...and the point is that the info about small surpluses often only appears at the last minute or day before,....because only then is it clear there are empty slots or no shows. It’s too late then to be shifts supply in a way which to be fair would by nature be complex.

YoutubeZoom · 18/04/2021 18:40

@WombatChocolate Beautifully put.

ChloeDecker · 18/04/2021 23:25

Well, whatever is fair or easier to distribute is irrelevant personally to me, as it does not change the fact that tomorrow, I will be travelling from my SE London borough to work in a school in another London borough, north of the river and mix again with 1800+ individuals, with me still unvaccinated and try to put that and the different variants to the back of my mind, just so I can get through the day/week/month.

And that’s not even including the thought that my DH who will be travelling to another London borough to teach, also unvaccinated, whilst our child stays in our SE London borough to go to school there.

Vaccinating the early 40s cannot come soon enough for me.

Tealightsandd · 18/04/2021 23:31

The case rates for London should be reported as for the city as a whole. As Sadiq Khan says, it's very interconnected. It would give a more accurate picture of the situation and possibly have helped with vaccine distribution/planning.

I hope you get your vaccine soon @ChloeDecker

RoseMalone · 19/04/2021 01:14

I really hope you and other teachers in their 40s get done soon @ChloeDecker
It feels wrong that more than a month after I was done as a 50 year old teachers still haven't been vaccinated.

WombatChocolate · 19/04/2021 07:04

Yes I hope supply increases and all those waiting get done soon. I hope the rollout to each group can come sooner rather than later.

user34254356 · 19/04/2021 11:03

I hope everyone who is waiting gets a vaccine soon. Hopefully in a months time there will be some large movements. I expect Novavax may also be available by then?

Frazzled2207 · 19/04/2021 11:16

@user34254356

I hope everyone who is waiting gets a vaccine soon. Hopefully in a months time there will be some large movements. I expect Novavax may also be available by then?
Novavax approval is hopefully imminent (I've had it as part of the trial) but I don't think likely to be widespread in arms before June. But hopefully that will come in very helpful for the 18-40 age group.

I have it on good authority though that the factory in Teesside is working flat out making it already, you'd hope that means that approval is extremely likely.

EasterIssland · 19/04/2021 13:36

I nearly have a heart attack as ii thought my husband(43) could book but no , they've changed the system again and now it asks you whether you're a health worker o social care worker and if soo lets you book.

BessMarvin · 19/04/2021 13:42

It's also changed to say 45 or over on 30 March

TheIceTree · 19/04/2021 15:09

We (aged 40 and 44) just got invited via the GP, in Newham.

MrsMariaReynolds · 19/04/2021 16:53

@EasterIssland

I nearly have a heart attack as ii thought my husband(43) could book but no , they've changed the system again and now it asks you whether you're a health worker o social care worker and if soo lets you book.
I just got excited by that too (I'm 44), but not my time.yet. I never managed to make it any further than the postcode question before so I thought I had somehow made it in.

It does seem odd that they're asking about health care/social workers now, as they were invited ages ago! I work in a school though, so at times I really do feel as though I do social work and health care ...

raspberryrippleicecream · 20/04/2021 00:55

I think the health care/social worker part is because of some NHS hubs closing. In my area the NHS hub for staff closed last week, bringing some second jabs forward at the last minute. Some people in my workplace (category 2) were unable to make those have to book at the community vaccine centre.

Frazzled2207 · 20/04/2021 11:11

Still no sign of under 45s being allowed yet here (greater manchester). Checking the website every day. With around 100,000 first shots being done every day at the moment that will take a while to get through the 45-49s.

Eccle80 · 20/04/2021 11:27

I’m glad it’s not just me who checks every day now!

user34254356 · 20/04/2021 11:43

@Eccle80

I’m glad it’s not just me who checks every day now!
Same here, though i just check on this thread for an update. Think it should be another 2 weeks for us, so first week of May. That's my guess ! hopefully some vaccines are still available by then
sleepwouldbenice · 20/04/2021 13:21

" I don’t agree about asking GPs to shift their supplies to areas which haven’t yet jabbed 40s. For one thing, no GPs actually have high supplies for 1st jabs at the moment. The total figure decline for 1st jabs shows that. The gains, I don’t think would be outweighed by the downsides of doing this...both operationally and in terms of speed and. Booking ahead, but also in terms of the fact there is a plan to rollout these limited extra supplies where they exist, in areas of lower uptake to the yiunger population to boost local herd immunity, which will be lost if they are diverted."

Disagree with this. Our gp is finally advertising that age 49 only can book through them. A surgery 5 miles away is doing under 40s. They share the same local vaccination centre. It could easily be changed they just don't want to

Tealightsandd · 20/04/2021 13:33

I heard from a family friend yesterday. Still waiting. They're 44 and live in one of the boroughs with the South African strain.

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