Australia says no to AZ and J&J vaccines--vax rollout likely to be delayed by months

[Kokeshi123]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/australia-wont-buy-johnson-johnsons-one-dose-covid-vaccine-due-to-astrazeneca-similarities

I know quite a lot of Ozzies who are completely stranded outside their country due to the fact that they cannot keep small children within a hotel room for two weeks and pay a fortune for the priviledge. As it is, it's looking like Oz will not be removing its quarantine requirements until well into 2022 at the earliest.

I mean, I do think that a basic strategy of "(1) Hold borders tight with Zero Covid until the vax>(2) Unroll vax> (3) Open borders" is a sound one, but it does depend on the second and third bits of the plan actually happening...

Can you fly direct from the Isle of Man to Australia? Without having to travel via a UK or Irish or other EU hub airport?

It is the UK making it hard. It's our lack of border restrictions and no real quarantine.

That's what's made life hard for everyone in the UK. It's why we've had prolonged and repeated lockdowns, why Australians have been safely going to work in their offices and out to shops, bars and restaurants for months whilst we were in yet another lockdown. It's why we have over 150,000 dead, more than 1 million suffering from long covid, AND a worse economy with many jobs lost.

The UK government, unlike Australia, prioritised international travel above everything else. Above lives, above mental and physical health, and above jobs.

@Tealightsandd

It is the UK making it hard. It's our lack of border restrictions and no real quarantine.

That's what's made life hard for everyone in the UK. It's why we've had prolonged and repeated lockdowns, why Australians have been safely going to work in their offices and out to shops, bars and restaurants for months whilst we were in yet another lockdown. It's why we have over 150,000 dead, more than 1 million suffering from long covid, AND a worse economy with many jobs lost.

The UK government, unlike Australia, prioritised international travel above everything else. Above lives, above mental and physical health, and above jobs.

Yeh we know.

But your relatives can visit with time and self imposed quarantine.

With valid reason for Aus gov of course.

"Likewise Brits wanting to do a year in Australia. Yes, there's quarantine but if they can save up to do the year abroad, they can afford a little extra saving to include that in their expenses."

I don't think that's so is it - non Australians are simply not allowed to enter (with some exceptions which I don't think include the British work/travel visas)? it's not a question of having to do quarantine, they are not allowed to go at all, as I understand it.

Yes you're right. If they're willing to accept some risk (travelling to the hotel from the airport, interacting with the hotel staff for food and PCR tests) - but it's not just about my relatives.

The UK prioritising international travel above all else has been devastating for pretty much everyone in the UK.

I'd have preferred the Australian choice of (interstate) domestic freedom over our prolonged repeated lockdowns, 150,000 dead, 1 million long covid, and a badly suffering economy.

And now the government's gone and let in the South African strain... fingers crossed our vaccine rollout helps mitigate (I'll give the government that one, as we're doing fairly well with that).

Both fully vaccinated but vaccines are not 100%

Then will they never do anything risky again? Because Covid isn’t going to disappear.

I also don’t agree that the UK government has prioritised travel above anywhere else. They have prioritised those aspects of travel that were of interest to them. They didn’t impose quarantines when it wouldn’t have benefitted them, so they could take their non-essential holidays. They didn’t impose multiple negative tests until they realised there was money to be made from it. Same with hotel quarantine. Now there’s a blanket ban and people from areas with almost 0 Covid are still having difficulties entering the country at short notice.

I have a friend in London who was called ASAP to her hometown in Spain to do some emergency paperwork that couldn’t be done at the embassy. That area in Spain has a super low incidence, less than 15/100k. So for a 24h trip she will now need to quarantine for 10 days on the way back when chances of her bringing back any virus are virtually non existent.

Yet in a couple of months the borders will open so people with money can have their summer holidays.

I live somewhere where risk areas, quarantines and testing requirements have stayed pretty much the same throughout the year. It’s all based on numbers, different kinds of analysis and is all heavily monitored. You can fly to X country when the risk to do so is scientifically low, not just because May bank holiday is coming and people want to escape to Ibiza.

@Youhavetoquitwhileyoureahead
Is that true? Perhaps the Australian government withdrew visas after the behaviour of the (largely British) backpackers over Christmas and NYE.

Also, I wish people stopped saying the government have ‘let in’ Covid or a strain. This is a global world and the UK is minutes away from mainland Europe. You can’t just keep it away.

I do too hope the vaccines help mitigate all of this. We need to get back to normal ASAP (and that includes opening borders, I don’t want an Australia-level of normal).

@Youhavetoquitwhileyoureahead @Tealightsandd
Yes it's quite tricky at the moment. Even renewing visas for those who are established here is difficult.
The fruit pickers weren't allowed in, education based weren't allowed in either. These are huge parts of the economy so I can't see them granting backpackers easy entry any time soon.
But Australians could now depart Australia by going via New Zealand first.
There has been talk of a bubble with Singapore that would enable people to essentially do their quarantine there. This would take the pressure off the current hotel spaces and allow more people to fly to Australia indirectly.
I don't think it will happen as early as a predicted (July this year) but think that would be the next step.

If it really came to it, they would. But at the moment, say you come for 2 weeks visit.

That’s 2 weeks isolating in the UK, two weeks here, two weeks to isolate back in Australia.

Don’t think their work would allow 6 weeks off.

Unless I’m misunderstanding the rules.

"If only the UK had taken the sensible approach of border restrictions and real quarantine."

But - as another pp has said, UK is not an island - not sure how this could have worked with the Ireland/NI border?

"Is that true? Perhaps the Australian government withdrew visas after the behaviour of the (largely British) backpackers over Christmas and NYE."

As I understand it, no non-Aus nationals (or those without long-term Aus residence) have been allowed to enter Australia since March 2020 - with certain exceptions (compassionate, probably some work related) - but not backpackers.

@EileenGC
Your friend won't be quarantining back in the UK. Not properly. Unless she's planning to stay at an airport hotel for two weeks? If not, she's going to travel home from the airport (having mixed with passengers from 'red list' countries on indirect flights and at the airport), possibly asymptomatically spreading covid across the public transport network.

Then will they never do anything risky again
Of course everyday life has its risks, but I was responding to posters complaining about Australia's approach, saying families can't visit relatives in Australia.

My point is it's swings and roundabouts. Australia's approach means families in Australia can do what many in the UK can't. Visit each other without the risk of passing on covid (a particularly nasty way to die, and a cause of sometimes long term illness).

Had we taken the same approach, we could've been the same. Visiting family including travelling to and from Australia.

It's not Australia"s approach that caused the problem. It's the UK's.

[quote Tealightsandd]@EileenGC
Your friend won't be quarantining back in the UK. Not properly. Unless she's planning to stay at an airport hotel for two weeks? If not, she's going to travel home from the airport (having mixed with passengers from 'red list' countries on indirect flights and at the airport), possibly asymptomatically spreading covid across the public transport network.

Then will they never do anything risky again
Of course everyday life has its risks, but I was responding to posters complaining about Australia's approach, saying families can't visit relatives in Australia.

My point is it's swings and roundabouts. Australia's approach means families in Australia can do what many in the UK can't. Visit each other without the risk of passing on covid (a particularly nasty way to die, and a cause of sometimes long term illness).

Had we taken the same approach, we could've been the same. Visiting family including travelling to and from Australia.

It's not Australia"s approach that caused the problem. It's the UK's.[/quote]
Yet we’d be cut off from our closest neighbours which would be worse, even if it were possible which is doubtful.

Also what’s the point in continuously looking backwards to something we can’t change?

The parents you talk about are vaccinated. If they are still feeling anxious that’s difficult but they are unlikely to die or get severely ill, aren’t they?

At some point most of us will move forward. You can see it already with high take up across U.K. as lockdown lifts.

@Youhavetoquitwhileyoureahead

"Is that true? Perhaps the Australian government withdrew visas after the behaviour of the (largely British) backpackers over Christmas and NYE."

As I understand it, no non-Aus nationals (or those without long-term Aus residence) have been allowed to enter Australia since March 2020 - with certain exceptions (compassionate, probably some work related) - but not backpackers.

I agree I very much doubt British pack packers were in Aus over Christmas. What’s the source for this to pp?

"I agree I very much doubt British pack packers were in Aus over Christmas. What’s the source for this to pp?"

There may have been some, in fact - those who entered before March 2020 and haven't yet left. But I don't think any will have been allowed to enter since then (unless dual nationality etc).

I guess it depends on priorities.

Choice 1: Temporary cut-off, but freedom to travel, work, shop, and socialise domestically, very low number of deaths, no long covid, and a relatively healthy economy.

Versus

Choice 2: Mostly open borders with quarantine largely in name only. With repeated long lockdowns, 150,000 deaths, 1 million+ long covid cases, many jobs lost, and businesses.

I prefer the first.

The other point about closing the borders (apart from the NI/ireland issue). Closing borders to accompanied freight (lorry drivers) would have been extremely complicated - a substantial proportion of food supplies (and possibly manufacturing components? tbh I don't know much about that!) come as accompanied freight at the moment.

I expect it would have been possible to change the way freight is distributed, but not at all straightforward.

@Tealightsandd

I guess it depends on priorities.

Choice 1: Temporary cut-off, but freedom to travel, work, shop, and socialise domestically, very low number of deaths, no long covid, and a relatively healthy economy.

Versus

Choice 2: Mostly open borders with quarantine largely in name only. With repeated long lockdowns, 150,000 deaths, 1 million+ long covid cases, many jobs lost, and businesses.

I prefer the first.

Great if you had a time machine you could go back and advise. You’d have to go back to Jan / Feb far before NZ acted though.

Otherwise we can have a thread about the reality of those with Aus / U.K. nationalities and what it means now and in the next few years.

www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-australia-55471235
Covid: Sydney beach party sparks 'backpacker' deportation threat....Some eyewitnesses said many of those present were British.

The UK and Ireland would have had to work together to close borders. It could have been done earlier for non-essential travel. We know from all the hauliers who were tested in December when the French closed the borders that very few (24 in 10,000?) were infected.

We might have stayed relatively covid-free and had far fewer deaths.

The Australians still wouldn't have let anyone in from the UK though, we would not have been covid-free, just more covid-lite. There wasn't even interstate movement in Australia for months.

I don't think hindsight was needed. I was saying it from the very start. As soon as I saw what was happening in China, it was obvious to me what we should do. And it's never too late. That's just an excuse. We can't go back in time sadly but we can prevent further damage. But yet again, we've ignored the lessons of the past year. Now it's the South African strain we've let in. And it is us letting it in. We have a choice. It's entirely within our control. We could have real quarantine if we wanted. Some in Labour have been calling for it. We just keep choosing the other option.

Since you can’t go back and you want to start now how long will you close borders for?

The point is that everywhere, every country in the world, should've temporarily closed their borders. The whole thing would've been over with pretty much a year ago.

And although we can't control what everywhere else does, we could've had a much better less damaging year in the UK if we'd taken the Aus/NZ/East Asia approach.