Australia says no to AZ and J&J vaccines--vax rollout likely to be delayed by months

[Kokeshi123]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/australia-wont-buy-johnson-johnsons-one-dose-covid-vaccine-due-to-astrazeneca-similarities

I know quite a lot of Ozzies who are completely stranded outside their country due to the fact that they cannot keep small children within a hotel room for two weeks and pay a fortune for the priviledge. As it is, it's looking like Oz will not be removing its quarantine requirements until well into 2022 at the earliest.

I mean, I do think that a basic strategy of "(1) Hold borders tight with Zero Covid until the vax>(2) Unroll vax> (3) Open borders" is a sound one, but it does depend on the second and third bits of the plan actually happening...

If Oz really does want to maintain a truly Zero COVID status, then I don't think that they are going to be opening up to East Asia any time soon. Most EA countries have few cases of COVID but not zero, and even with truly COVID free countries like NZ, travel bubbles seem to be quite tricky. Everyone knows perfectly well that if they travel to another country within a travel bubble and then a single case breaks out, the border will slam shut, and they will be left stranded, unable to return back home without a long and expensive quarantine. Even travel within Australia takes nerves of steel, I am told, because state borders are apt to close suddenly in response to a case or two that suddenly crop up.

I mean, I am sure this is okay for the moment...we are in a pandemic and every country is struggling in some way right now. 2024 though? I think a lot of people will be out of patience long before then.

@Tealightsandd we are not an island. As the residents of NI know only too well.

It is offensive to play whataboutery on this thread. No one is criticising the initial decision of the Australian government to shut the borders. They are criticising the decision to keep them shut for years on end by totally screwing up the rollout of the vaccine programme.

There is zero chance SE Asia will open up. Not least because we know eg singapore are also going to open up to the U.K. and other countries with high levels of vaccination. You simple can’t open up if you have a zero covid mindset.

Teaslight, I live in Japan and we are not even close to zero Covid. Deaths are low here, but if Oz opened up to us without quarantine it would be overrun with the virus pretty quickly.

And as mentioned in my previous post, travel bubbles are dicey in theory because they have to slam shut, leaving citizens stranded, if even a single case gets in anywhere.

I think Oz needs to get going and roll the vax out faster.

Not necessarily anytime soon, but I can see East Asia definitely coming before the UK.

Within borders, Australian tourism is doing well. My relatives had a nice time during their in-state holiday last year. They appreciated the break. They've been back in the office for a while. Weekends and evenings, they enjoy going out to eat and drink in their local restaurants and bars.

Young restless Aussies can still travel abroad for gap years. Likewise Brits wanting to do a year in Australia. Yes, there's quarantine but if they can save up to do the year abroad, they can afford a little extra saving to include that in their expenses.

International travel remains, even today, a luxury many can't afford. Particularly in other parts of the world, but also within the UK too (where increasing numbers can't even afford the essentials and rely on food banks).

I think Australia and New Zealand are in a much better position than us. Their economies are doing relatively well and they don't have the public trauma and distress of widespread bereavement, long covid, and repeated long lasting lockdowns.

I really want to see my brother again. He was due to come in 2020. Flights all booked a few weeks before lockdown. I haven’t seen his kids since 2017 and they will be teenagers at this rate before I see them again. They probably don’t know who I am.

He’s so desperate to come to see our parents.

Yes Australia have done well. It will be the next few years that will be interesting because there will have to be a political leap to allowing low level of Covid transmission if they ever want to open the boarder. They have the benefit of the vaccine and the more advanced treatments available now for Covid patients and will hopefully therefore avoid thousands of hospital admissions, but it’s the political guts it will take to say ‘yes, we will allow Covid in now we have vaccinated, even if it causes people to get ill with it’ That will be interesting.

Australia has effectively quarantined from the rest of the world, so when it eventually does open up, it presumably will open the floodgates to all sorts of other more minor viruses that have mutated in the meanwhile, to which Australians will have no immunity! Could make for a particularly nasty flu season!

I really empathise DobbyTheHouseElk

My relatives in Australia are desperate to see their elderly parents again.

They can't safely do it. They'd accept Australian quarantine. They know how important it is.

Unfortunately it's too risky to travel from the UK airport (after mixing with red list country arrivals at the airport).

There's no safe way for them to do it. Cab, hire car, train. All too risky when it involves visiting vulnerable elderly.

If only the UK had taken the sensible approach of border restrictions and real quarantine.

@Tealightsandd

I really empathise DobbyTheHouseElk

My relatives in Australia are desperate to see their elderly parents again.

They can't safely do it. They'd accept Australian quarantine. They know how important it is.

Unfortunately it's too risky to travel from the UK airport (after mixing with red list country arrivals at the airport).

There's no safe way for them to do it. Cab, hire car, train. All too risky when it involves visiting vulnerable elderly.

If only the UK had taken the sensible approach of border restrictions and real quarantine.

Why don’t they self impose quarantine here?

Fly to U.K. and book hotel

They could book an airport hotel, but they'd still need to travel from the hotel to the family. They wouldn't have their car with them. The car would stay in Australia.

They can hire a car. They can book a huge van as a private transfer where everyone is more than 2 meters apart, has FFP2 masks on and windows open for the duration of the trip. Your words, it can be done if one wants to.

@Tealightsandd

They could book an airport hotel, but they'd still need to travel from the hotel to the family. They wouldn't have their car with them. The car would stay in Australia.

Where are the relatives? In a town / city with hotels nearby?

It doesn’t have to be an airport hotel as once they’ve done the self isolation quarantine they’re clear.

Btw if they are elderly or vulnerable haven’t they had the vaccine?

The risk doesn’t come from the actual flight and airport transit. People who import Covid into a country do so by social contact with other people once in the country. If everyone is masked to the fullest and spread out (which is what happens at airports - I’ve been in them a fair amount this year), the risk is still smaller than a supermarket. The problem is selfish individuals who pull down their mask as soon as they’re on the Piccadilly line platform at T5, ignore quarantine and go to the shops/send their kids to school the next day. Or simply have a relative around straight after landing. The actual plane and airport are a very small risk.

Tbh it’s much easier for your Aus relatives to do it than it is us to Aus.

They don’t need to book scarce hotel quarantine they can self impose in any hotel. They are visiting elderly here who are vaccinated.

@Tealightsandd

Young restless aussies cannot travel abroad easily.

If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you have to apply for permission to leave.

I honestly have not minded the restrictions. I managed an interstate holiday this year, ( having weighed up the risk of borders shutting, as residents of SA we would be allowed to travel back into SA and would have to isolate for 2 weeks).

2024 seems very far down the track and the mess up of vaccines doesn’t fill Me with confidence.

They've decided not to risk it. They've accepted it's safer to do zoom. I was just pointing out to those complaining about Australia's border restrictions that the UK's lack of restrictions also impacts families. The elderly parents are in London. Both fully vaccinated but vaccines are not 100%. I agree that hire car is the safest of the options but the risk remains, especially in London as it's the frontline for all new strains and a huge mixing hub. Our hotels are doing nothing like the Australian quarantine. The government has let in South African strain now. What strain next?

@MarshaBradyo

Tbh it’s much easier for your Aus relatives to do it than it is us to Aus.

They don’t need to book scarce hotel quarantine they can self impose in any hotel. They are visiting elderly here who are vaccinated.

Any Australian citizen or permanent resident has to apply for permission to leave and have a valid reason for leaving.

Yes it's definitely easier to leave and return to the UK. Our border restrictions and so called quarantine are pretty much in name only.

@Tealightsandd

They've decided not to risk it. They've accepted it's safer to do zoom. I was just pointing out to those complaining about Australia's border restrictions that the UK's lack of restrictions also impacts families. The elderly parents are in London. Both fully vaccinated but vaccines are not 100%. I agree that hire car is the safest of the options but the risk remains, especially in London as it's the frontline for all new strains and a huge mixing hub. Our hotels are doing nothing like the Australian quarantine. The government has let in South African strain now. What strain next?

Up to them but if they are vaccinated then they are low risk. The parents must be participating in London life at some point?

Or if not they wanted to they could self isolate easily in London hotel and walk to parents after time period.

Nothing is stopping them on UK side.

Any Australian citizen or permanent resident has to apply for permission to leave and have a valid reason for leaving.

I see. That makes it harder but still it’s not as pp said the U.K. making it hard.

How do they get, from the airport, to a hotel within walking distance of the parents?

The parents go out (walks, socially distanced garden visits) locally. They don't use London's virus spreading (complete with, as EileenGC says mask-below-the-nose people) public transport.

@Tealightsandd

How do they get, from the airport, to a hotel within walking distance of the parents?

The parents go out (walks, socially distanced garden visits) locally. They don't use London's virus spreading (complete with, as EileenGC says mask-below-the-nose people) public transport.

Who are you protecting the parents or the travellers?

If it’s the parents it’s not so important as long as they quarantine in hotel. They could pay for a PCR test once here to shorten it. Looks like they need a valid reason to leave Aus though.

Tealights - they could travel by any means to a hotel or airbnb within walking distance of the elderly relatives and self quarantine for 2 weeks before walking to meet them.