Australia says no to AZ and J&J vaccines--vax rollout likely to be delayed by months

[Kokeshi123]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/australia-wont-buy-johnson-johnsons-one-dose-covid-vaccine-due-to-astrazeneca-similarities

I know quite a lot of Ozzies who are completely stranded outside their country due to the fact that they cannot keep small children within a hotel room for two weeks and pay a fortune for the priviledge. As it is, it's looking like Oz will not be removing its quarantine requirements until well into 2022 at the earliest.

I mean, I do think that a basic strategy of "(1) Hold borders tight with Zero Covid until the vax>(2) Unroll vax> (3) Open borders" is a sound one, but it does depend on the second and third bits of the plan actually happening...

Also regarding refugees, as an example a lot of refugees came over from vietnam in the 70s. It’s changed a lot since then.

Of course it's a bit shit for people privileged enough to afford regular long haul visits abroad. But it's not permanent, it was the right decision given the alternative, and its not something everyone with family abroad is able to do even in non covid times. It's sad for those who want to visit their families abroad right now but it's also sad for those who can never or only rarely afford to do it in normal times. That's just how it is. Those who are usually able to travel will be able to again. Unlike for those struggling financially or unable to travel for health reasons, this is just temporary.

As well as the vaccine rollout (which is happening even if slightly delayed), new treatments are being developed. The borders won't stay shut forever, and Australia will be opening up to a much much better situation than the UK.

Stop it with the ‘1 million long term ill’ scaremongering and misinformation. You know it’s not true and yet you keep peddling it.

What’s your goal with that?

@Tealightsandd

You really are like a stuck record.

You have no first hand knowledge about life in Australia. You have forgotten that a highly populated are of Australia had to go through a harsh long lockdown.

Most people in Australia are thankful that mostly it’s been normal, but resentment will start to build when other parts of the world are back to normal and travelling freely and we are not.

People do not only travel for visits to family they also do it for leisure and will want to get back to it.

Australia told its temporary visa holders to go back to were they are from and that there would be no help for them.

Australian temporary visa holders in other countries are stuck overseas. Some unable to support themselves as their visa has run out or they were on a tourist visa.

You also seem to be of the impression that Australians are a bunch of paupers and only the super rich can travel abroad

Families are being kept apart more drastically in the UK, where people can't even meet in each other's homes.

It’s more drastic only being able to see your family in a garden or a park for a few months than being prevented by your government from being able to see your family at all for years?

Jesus you really are just trolling people struggling with separation from their families aren’t you. How devoid of empathy do you need to be to post bullshit like this along side your misinformation (1 million long term ill, 10,000 at most wanting to get home. You’re just a gold mine of makey-uppy misinformation.)

@MoppaSprings

You also seem to be of the impression that Australians are a bunch of paupers and only the super rich can travel abroad

Of course not. But there's plenty of people there (and in the UK and everywhere else) who can't afford to regularly travel. Lots too who can't for health reasons.

What @JassyRadlett said

You are just a little bundle of misinformation and unpleasantness tealights. It’s a winning combination!

@Tealightsandd
There are also a lot of people who can travel and want to be able to do it.

As everyone else has said on here most Australians are fine with the short term restrictions, but when they start to go years without being able to leave ( even non Australian citizens can’t leave) they are rightfully unhappy.

I also think you don’t realise how much luck Australia has had in regards to covid. It should have been much worse at times here but wasn’t.

I find your posts devoid of empathy actually @JassyRadlett

You go on about families kept apart. There are families living in the same city or town in the UK kept apart. Vulnerable family members shielding for a year because it's too dangerous for them to travel even domestically.

150,000 families permanently kept apart. Few would choose that over a temporary international travel ban. If only it was trolling rather than fact!

And, so many people vulnerable to covid being pretty much told by posts like yours that immediate international travel for a minority of a population is more important than their right to life.

The situation in the UK, including the lockdowns here, has been dreadful and far far less normal than Australia's. It's so offensive to say otherwise.

You presumably think the doctors are trolling too...

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/long-covid-symptoms-uk-ons-b1825434.html

And, so many people vulnerable to covid being pretty much told by posts like yours that immediate international travel for a minority of a population is more important than their right to life.

Can you quote where I’ve said this, please.

The situation in the UK, including the lockdowns here, has been dreadful and far far less normal than Australia's. It's so offensive to say otherwise.

And please also quote where I’ve suggested anything to the contrary.

Because I haven’t. You’re making stuff up. Again.

Why?

@Flyornofly

What *@JassyRadlett* said

You are just a little bundle of misinformation and unpleasantness tealights. It’s a winning combination!

If take a look in the mirror if I were you. What you're basically saying couldn't be more unpleasant. Downright nasty actually. What you want is something that would risk the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, and the health and livelihoods of many more. Disgusting.

*I'd

Ok @JassyRadlett So you do support Australia's choice. Because that's the only other option. The UK choose the other one and my goodness has suffered for it. Of course it's shit not being able ti travel internationally temporarily, but the alternative is infinitely shitter.

You presumably think the doctors are trolling too...

And on this one I’ll help you out by quoting my own response to you on this point from the other thread.

The ONS statistics include that kind of lingering symptom as well as the far more serious ones.

Long Covid is a serious issue but it actually harms the sufferers by misusing the ONS statistics as you have done - and as many journalists have done - as it makes it easier for people to dismiss it.

No one is denying the existence or seriousness of long Covid. But by using these figures in the way you are you are muddying the waters and potentially undermining how seriously people take the condition by conflating it with ‘any symptoms 5+ weeks after assumed infection date.’

*chose
*to

@Tealightsandd no one is saying fling the borders open now and just let covid rampage through the country.
We all know it’s got to be phased and along side keep testing, keep scanning QR code’s, keep testing waste water.

It would be helpful to know when travel is likely.

I said in my first post the longer it takes for them to properly vaccinate people the longer it will take for the phased opening.

Ok @JassyRadlett So you do support Australia's choice. Because that's the only other option. The UK choose the other one and my goodness has suffered for it. Of course it's shit not being able ti travel internationally temporarily, but the alternative is infinitely shitter.

I’d suggest reading my actual posts if you want to know my position on this and my reasons for posting on this thread.

I would repeat however that there is not a binary choice here between the catastrophic mismanagement of all but the vaccine programme in the U.K. and the experiences of Aus/NZ, and neither are the choices of the one necessarily available to the other.

But again - if you want to know what I think (rather than wildly inventing) I’d suggest paying me the respect of reading what I’ve written.

@spottygymbag

I really wish I could take a banner ad out sometimes. The Aus strategy isn't zero covid forever. It was to provide initial protection while the health system capacity was increased, and treatments and vaccinations were developed. Yes they are planning to vaccinate. Yes they are currently stuck on hold with the same clotting issue a lot of countries are facing with AZ no supply issues for others. Yes the majority over here want to be vaccinated. Yes they want the borders to open, but not when most are unvaccinated. Yes they have and are talking about covid being endemic, a long term issue and thy we will have to accept a low level of cases.

Thank you! SO many people on here seem to think we will never allow a case of covid EVER. Its about getting everyone vaccinated so that when we open up and it comes in, it doesn't cause too many cases and those ones are mild. No one is stupid enough to think there could ever be zero covid forever. Home quarantine is a daft idea unless its once everyone is vaccinated and we are adjusting to opening up so its not the end of the world if some people don't do it. To do it currently EVEN for vaccinated people from overseas it would be a road to mass death. We just need to get the fuck on with the vaccine roll out. Here and overseas. Otherwise by the time it is done there will be strains which it has no effect against and we are back to square one (although I think there is a strong possibility of this and the government should be getting 100 Howard Springs style camps on the go so we can get much more movement in and out but in a safe way with 2 weeks forced quarantine)

I said in my first post the longer it takes for them to properly vaccinate people the longer it will take for the phased opening.

Yep, and the closer it gets to electoral politics and the greater chance of Fortress Australia being perpetuated by political rather than scientific calculations.

The longer they go without setting out an exit strategy, the harder it gets.

You talk about misinformation...

It's dangerous to downplay long covid.

The UK government wouldn't be spending money on treatment clinics for a mostly short term and mild condition. The NHS is cash strapped enough as it is (and, thanks to covid, facing a 5 year backlog).

Scans have shown heart and lung damage. And of course at this stage many long covid sufferers won't have accessed a scan yet.

Hopefully most will be able to recover and not experience organ damage, but we can't know yet. It's definitely not something to dismiss at this stage.

@JassyRadlett

I said in my first post the longer it takes for them to properly vaccinate people the longer it will take for the phased opening.

Yep, and the closer it gets to electoral politics and the greater chance of Fortress Australia being perpetuated by political rather than scientific calculations.

The longer they go without setting out an exit strategy, the harder it gets.

If the policy is so unpopular with so many Australians, than surely the elections would make them open up quickly... Unless it's actually not so unpopular with the majority afterall.

It's dangerous to downplay long covid.

Fortunately, I’m not. I’m simply pointing out that claiming the ONS has said there’s 1.1 million cases of it - or that there is any credible evidence to suggest numbers anywhere near that level - is incorrect and gives those who do want to downplay it extra ammunition to portray it as hysteria.

You suggest I’ve dismissed it. Can you quote where, please? Because where I have talked about it - as I cut and pasted above - I stated that it’s a serious issue.

If the policy is so unpopular with so many Australians, than surely the elections would make them open up quickly... Unless it's actually not so unpopular with the majority afterall.

I didn’t say it was unpopular. Why do you persist in attributing things to me that I didn’t say?

But given that the exit part of the strategy is currently unpublished, there is greater risk of it being influenced by populism than science the closer it gets to key elections.