MHRA may change advice for young people receiving AZ vaccine

[IloveSooty424]

I just saw this news story on Channel 4 news tonight.

www.channel4.com/news/uk-medicines-regulator-considers-issuing-new-advice-over-oxford-astrazeneca-jab

It seems the MHRA may follow other European countries and Canada and advise that younger people should not receive the AZ vaccine. It seems the decision will be made imminently in the coming days.

I’m due to book my vaccine this week and don’t know whether to wait and see how this plays out. I’m 42. I’m also concerned that if younger people will only be offered the Pfizer vaccine it will slow down the vaccine programme substantially.

Any thoughts?

@BuggerBognor the goverment can't control how other countries choose to allow people to visit and they can't give you a vaccine they don't have?
The vaccine passports for pubs/ leisure etc look likely not happen and even if they do its been suggested not until everyone has been offered which is end july earliest and by then we may have other vaccines available so more likely a choice can be made , also more likely to understand more which vaccines present a risk and to who etc
As long as your happy to wait , which you said you are , in the meantime no one is stopping anyone in the short term doing anything
Travel is out of uk goverments hands

I find that ineffably sad @Ginandfantalemon

I'm 55 and have an undelying health condition and have finally had my vaccine, AZ. Headache and a sore arm.

Your elderly relative could easily have reacted to the situation, the change in routine as much as the vaccine. It happens, is a known reaction to environmental stressors in the frail elderly.

I would be interested to know what happens now if people refuse AZ.

@Ginandfantalemon and thats the choice only you can make and your happy to wait
I had Az 3 weeks ago tomorrow so hoping I am out of the danger zone as it is worrying ,although I had no symptoms when I had mine , I am 45 my friend 52 and mum 64 all had as well in same week and all of us had no reactions either so is all very strange and seems some are fine others not, but latest news is worrying and I am hoping for more data before I have my 2nd dose or proof that if ok after 1st dose then 2nd should be ok
I do think we will see more people decline it now, but might be worth you finding out what centre is giving so someone else can have the appt and vaccine who may be willing to have it
Vaccines going to waste seems worse so maybe we now need to be told what vaccine is being given for that week at least then people can cancel who want to and they can fill appts with those that want to go

I don't know what is in the national policy. We are aware that the government is prepared to do check backs on some cohorts.

Some places have reported not inviting AZ refusers back for an alternative. Others have signposted other centres that might have an alternative available. It's all down to local logistics.

Nationally I expect that the government will do a last sweep with whatever vaccines they have, once the general roll out has ended.

And maybe, after all is done and dusted, people may be able to buy a covid vaccine privately.

CuriosaboutSamphire
Reacted to what situation? She has had no change of routine. Went for her jab one day, then a couple of days later all her problems suddenly started.

@CuriousaboutSamphire
I mean there has been no research done into establishing if there are any specific risk factors for blood clotting following the AZ vaccine. The AZ information for health professionals is very clear that blood clots have occurred but risk factors have not been identified. In addition the EMA says on its news site quite clearly

EMA is reminding healthcare professionals and people receiving the vaccine to remain aware of the possibility of very rare cases of blood clots combined with low levels of blood platelets occurring within 2 weeks of vaccination. So far, most of the cases reported have occurred in women under 60 years of age within 2 weeks of vaccination. Based on the currently available evidence, specific risk factors have not been confirmed.

Not going to continue this conversation because it is clear we have very different views

@PeasPeasPeas I guess they will have to wait, assuming we have done the most at risk groups at the moment ?
If lots refuse we will see a slow done in vaccinating so maybe might have an impact on restrictions as vaccine programme is one of the things they look at , but then again if the most at risk have been done then I can't see why
The bigger issue may be people not taking 2nd doses I would think as leaves partially vaccinated ?

@Ginandfantalemon

CuriosaboutSamphire Reacted to what situation? She has had no change of routine. Went for her jab one day, then a couple of days later all her problems suddenly started.

That can be enough. Anything that is out of routine can cause issues. Anything!

As sad and improbable as it sounds, my great aunt died after she was given new slippers and dressing gown for her birthday. Well, sort of. She had visitors, her routine was disrupted and that evening when the home staff dressed her in her new night wear she complained that her things were being changed, she didn't like it. She died 3 days later.

As I said, it is a well known, documented reaction to environmental changes on the frail elderly

@TroubleUsedToBeMyBusiness yes they did say I think its too early to understand risk factors but they also said in relation to doses given as such men seem to be similar risk but hard to calculate as not as many men given yet but i think going on percentages ( well this was said in uk press conference) so no guarantee women are more risk just yet but more have shown as more injected.
I guess they will now study data they do have to see if any risk factors are clear but this will take time

I mean there has been no research done into establishing if there are any specific risk factors for blood clotting following the AZ vaccine. The AZ information for health professionals is very clear that blood clots have occurred but risk factors have not been identified. In addition the EMA says on its news site quite clearly They did though! That's what the analysis of data was; what the analysis of the individuals was. What do you think they have not done?

I think our differences of opinion are based in dfferent understandings of the data avialable, of statistical analysis in general. Which why I asked the questions I did and explained why, what I thought we could all do to find data to address all of the questions being raised.

@CuriousaboutSamphire I didn’t say that you called someone a granny killer. Just pointing out that the data shows the elderly people are being protected by the vaccine. Someone else was effectively called a selfish granny killer because they’re not being vaccinated even though she said her grandparents had been vaccinated. You said ‘that’s not the point’. I disagree. I think it very much is the point that we set out to vaccinate the most vulnerable groups in order to reduce their risk of serious complications and death and it seems to be working very well. An excellent achievement!

Interesting to see that UCL modelling is predicting that we will reach the herd immunity threshold by early next week without having vaccinated everyone - due to a combination of vaccine immunity and immunity after infection. So yes, the data does support what I’ve been saying about us reaching herd immunity through a combination of the two.

Yes @bumbleymummy

Whatever you say! However you remodel it.

CuriousaboutSamphire
I know you are probably right, just seems very strange and I think we are all looking at everything being a vaccine 'symptom' now. Like before, we thought every symptom might be a Covid one. (Or at least I was).

@BuggerBognor

And maybe, after all is done and dusted, people may be able to buy a covid vaccine privately.

Already happening in other countries. I don’t mind waiting and/or paying, but I think choice should be available before any restrictions are imposed on the unvaccinated.

I don't see the restrictions.

I see additional care being taken, procedures being trialed, in mass meetings, mostly in the leisure industry, to see if re-opening it sooner rather than later is possible.

That's stuff we choose to do over and above the every day necessities.

I see all countries looking at internatinal travel and deciding what hey will and will not restrict. Not the UK makng global decisions.

What specific restrictions are the government having the temerity to impose?

I am very pro vaccination in general and have had the Pfizer vaccine through work also have fully vaccinated my kids on the routine schedule. But I really question if we are doing the right thing by vaccinating the entire population of healthy under 50’s with drugs that have no long term safety data. Especially as we are now going to be using coercion for those who choose to decline. The risk to these people from covid is low. As far as I’m aware there is no real evidence the vaccines prevent long covid which is clearly multi factorial and not just related to covid infection. What do I know, if you say this out loud people call you a tinfoil hat antivax murderer.

@Ginandfantalemon

CuriousaboutSamphire I know you are probably right, just seems very strange and I think we are all looking at everything being a vaccine 'symptom' now. Like before, we thought every symptom might be a Covid one. (Or at least I was).

Please do accept my sympathies. It is really hard to work your way through all of this, especially with the flood of contradictory information we keep getting.

All I can say is:

1. I have an underlying health condition. I did so much reading onit and still came up with "We don't knw, you take you chances either way"

1. I have more knowledge that some because of my education and past jobs. That experience will have biased my opinions aswell as giving me a bit more understanding of what is being done behind the scenes

I made my choice and, so far, am very happy with it. If the next tranche of data means I would have made a different decision, well, so be it. I'd have done different O levels way back when had I known what I know now! That's soemthing we live with all the time. No certainties!

@BuggerBognor we aren't being restricted here yet based on vaccinated or not and it is looking less likely as may be voted down and it was said not until everyone had been offered which won't be until earliest end of july and by then we may have other vaccines
Although its ever changing and its not impossible that we may find issues with other vaccines or learn more risk factors with AZ etc its ever changing as all so new

its not the vaccine its an autoimmune reaction to the vaccine

This is interesting. I wonder if those who react to the vaccine in this way with blood clots would be the same people who would get blood clots if they contracted Covid? (obviously just wondering in an unscientific way, I’m not one of those who think because I have a little knowledge that makes me an expert). And this being the case, you might expect to see it in all vaccines in the fullness of time.

Show us the hysteria...

And the specific restriictions...

And understand the ever changing data is beased on ever growing databases.

And we have been told, openly and often, from day 1... the government response was based on the NHS and then commerce.

My sister has requested advice because our mum and great grandma both died, pre covid, of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis. Both undiagnosed, brain stem dead in a week. We were children..anyway she went to her GP, or spoke to I should say, who sympathised..she is going to speak to the medical.board about it. But I am assuming this is the sort of exception that may be allowed, as the clot is rare but not to our family! It is terrifying and also bringing back a lot of memories for us. Our mum was let down by the NHS.

Our mums initial symptoms were an extremely bad headache. She went to bed then unconscious, never recognised us again, put on a life support machine and went brain stem dead in a week.