Can the 40-49 age group now book their vaccine?

[Summergirl76]

Sister’s boyfriend (43) was able today to book his vaccine by entering his details on the national booking site (he is Derby based). Sister late 30s tried too but it said she was not eligible. Her husband tried last week and was also not eligible. Just wondered if anyone else has tried in the 40s age group and been able to book?

People don’t seem to realise there are 2 booking systems. There is the localised GP booking system (people invited by text or call and given link to book, which often if under 50 is pretty immediate as they aren’t meant to book far in advance with under 50) and then there is the national booking system online which shows age eligibility and books people to the mass centres or pharmacies.

Each week NHS England advises GPs and other booking centres about what they should be doing and who to give jab to.

Last Thursday, places were told again NOT to extend invitations to under 50s, or to start phase 2 (under 50s) until told to. They are told instead to prioritise following up over 50s who still haven’t booked on the national system and if they have spare doses beyond those people and beyond the 2nd dose people, then they should pull 2nd doses people in sooner. GPs are told in bold not to ask under 50s.

Lots of 2nd dose elderly are now reporting being called in 2-3 weeks sooner than they expected.

It looks like there is going to be a big decline in 1st doses. It has already started, but it is going to get worse. Vaccine has rightly been put aside for 2nd doses and there is some for over 50s who are still to take up 1st dose, but little else.

They don’t want to officially open the national booking site to under 50s because the target date for completing phase 1 over 50s is 15 April and as we haven’t got there yet, there’s no need to open it, especially if it would then have to be halted....they really don’t want to start under 50s and the stop. So although we all know under 50s who have been done it’s a ll unofficial and the national booking site still only lets over 50s and that’s still the official line about who is being done.

The NHS England site also says that in April people will find it harder to book on the national site. Fewer appointments will be available. The messaging this week will start telling people over 50 who still haven’t booked to contact their GP and the GP rather than national system will do the mop up of over 50s. There is sadly no sign it will extend to under 50s anytime very soon.

When we get to 15 April, no doubt a big fangare will rightly be made about offering to all over 50s. At that point they will need to say where we are and what’s Halle I g next or not happening next. It’s 10 days off. Perhaps by then more supply will be in, but it looks like not until May. When they officially rollout to the next age groups they will want to keep going and not start and then stop which will get bad publicity.

In Derby the 40+ have been done by text from GPs and late 30s have been called up over the weekend. There has been spare capacity over appointments over the weekend (maybe people not booking because of Easter so possibly some need to fill gaps).

Ultimately it balances up. When the places that are ahead have completed offering the vaccine to adults, the supply can be redirected to other areas. There has already been a couple of weeks where supply was reduced locally for this purpose.

For Derby itself, recent rates have been average to above average and has consistently had hot-spots, so getting that reduced by vaccine ASAP is no bad thing, especially as there is a lot of connection with other areas that are above average.

@Tealightsandd

I think it's wrong that areas with surplus supply are giving it to healthy people in their 20s when upper 40s in other areas are having to wait. It's known the risk is higher from 40. Surplus supplies should be sent to other areas. I feel for my friends and I'm almost grateful I'm in the CV group and managed to get mine.

Part of the problem is that the effort required to monitor and redistribute supplies on a constant basis would end up being much less inefficient than just doing a broad distribution and allowing for some errors or some places to get ahead, etc. Overall, it probably still ends up with a faster system, and all the 40-year olds eventually getting it faster than a slower system that is more fair. They have to keep distributing the vaccines based on things like practice size/area population, possibly to some extent age distribution, but they can't be constantly reorganising when there is low take up in certain areas - they end up doing the under 50s as a result, but you can't penalise them by reducing their supply. GPs get the vaccines in batches - at my surgery it seems to be approximately 1000 at a time, and so they end up doing who they can within that. In my area, though, they have been explicitly told they can't invite under 50s, so some areas are following the guidance more than others! I don't know what they're doing with any surplus as a result. But I think it would be difficult for them to send spares elsewhere, as they come in that particular size delivery, and they only get it once a week or once a fortnight. I imagine if other places are similar, they probably would use them up on doing younger people - but it doesn't mean they could realistically have sent the delivery elsewhere, as they needed part of it. If you reduce the number of places that get deliveries to make up for that, then it gets harder to mop-up the people who can't travel as far etc. I think it's all swings and roundabouts, really. And to get the speed of the rollout that we have had, we have to accept some unfairnesses that come in the name of efficiency/speed - slower but fairer with more checks, more reorganisation, more red-tape, would mean slower for everyone.

I agree that this is a broad brush system for speed and efficiency purposes. Nuance to reflect different age distributions or speed or getting through can’t always be built in and if they tried to would slow the system down. We have to accept that there isn’t a perfect queue by age and prior out and people don’t all get done in the exact order.

NHS England now says surpluses must be used to pull 2nd dose people in sooner and not be given to under 50s. Given they said no roll-out to under 50s for the last 2-3 weeks, it is clear that some areas have stuck to that and others haven’t because there are lots of reports of local areas and GP hubs calling over 45s or over 40s, but others rigidly sticking to over 50s.

I’d imagine that now the priority groups have been offered it will become a bit more random. On one level, those at local level can see the local picture and make decisions about what it’s best to do next, as long as they have a long enough view of supply coming to their area. The trouble is, local supply might not be known very far in advance.

Balancing speed and efficiency which means broad brush approaches and the majority getting done faster, but a few slower, against a very strict prioritisation system remains a challenge. They probably do have it right overall, but it’s very hard to see that if you’re an upper 40 who feels their area is the only one sticking to the rules.

Sorry but I disagree with you both
Our vaccinations are largely given out in local rather than national hubs. It would be very easy for those gp practices merrily vaccinating 100s of under 50s to allocate those sessions more evenly across local gps

GPs have been told repeatedly not to do under 50s. The issue of places doing under 40s and now like some areas are doing will mean they in 12 weeks will need second doses as the time when there should be a focus on 40s/30s FIRST doses so hence slowing that down.

I think it’s all a very complex puzzle and one that few people know the full picture of. That’s why it’s hard for us to understand why certain things are happening and some of it seems frustrating.

Decisions are made based on supply into the future, plus the fact that it’s all complicated by needing to ensure 2nd doses are available at the right time.

It’s true, that decisions made today and decisions to give doses to 1st jab patients or 2nd jab patients today, impact what we have to be able to do and deliver in 10-12 weeks time. Those decisions for today have to be based on what is expected to be available in 10-12 weeks.

The pulling forward of 2nd doses to now and bringing them to 8 weeks plus rather than giving those doses to the under 50s, makes me think they know supply in 10-12 weeks won’t be great. They can manage that by ensuring they aren’t needing to give loads of 2nd doses in 10-12 weeks and the way to manage that is to not give loads of 1st doses now. 2nd dose people being finished off have no further requirement in another 10-12 weeks. It makes sense.

It’s why GPs are other vaccine providers really do need to follow the instructions even if it’s frustrating. They might feel they’d like to give the jab to under 50s, when the mop-up of over 50s isn’t generating enough people, and they might prefer to jab more people with 1st doses than use them up on 2nd doses people who already have some protection, but it’s about ensuring supply for the right jabs and people in 12 weeks too and a bigger picture, that individual vaccine centres cannot always see.

I agree that if GPs are told not to jab under 50s and then give substantial doses to those groups instead of to the brought forward 2nd dose people, in 10-12 weeks there could be problems. Those upper 40s won’t be glad to find there isn’t enough vaccine for their 2nd dose then, if that is a result if some GPs doing their own thing.

For us an individuals just thinking about wanting it done ASAP, plus for individual vaccine providers who have lots of volunteers and a zeal to jab as many people as possible and keep rolling out, it’s hard if not impossible to see the bigger picture. We don’t all know and cannot all be told the exact vaccine supplies into the future. Even those in charge face fairly short term changes that they have to adjust to. And they have to be cautious and plan for worst case scenarios ensuring they don’t give too many 1st jabs and result in there not being enough for 2nd jabs a few weeks later.

Sorry I don't know why the NHS expects people who don't get the vaccine to change their mind after a phone call. They should be cracking on to vaccinate more people further on down the age groups. My sister early 30s was done last week. Yet my area seems to take great delight phoning up my parents insisting they should be getting the vaccine when they have no intention of getting it instead of just cracking on to those willing. Giving people second doses before 12 weeks whilst some haven't had their first seems unfair on those younger people who have to work having no protection.

If feels like a free for all in some areas though. I dont recall when it was the late 50s being vaccinated that those in their 40s or 30s were being vaccinated in large numbers in some areas ahead of the late 50s in other areas.

There was an order, so why now does it seem (and I use the word seem as I feel like I'm being bypassed) like my age group (late 40s) are being dismissed if they are unlucky enough to be registered at a particular GP? I can't blame my area, as neighbouring GPs are whizzing through the 40s).
But the national online booking system is set to the rule of 50s and over. Meanwhile those up to 30 years younger than me are being vaccinated.

There’s a balance between contacting those who are slow to book or hesitant multiple times and cracking in down the ages.

Covid is at risk of becoming a disease of poverty and deprivation. A key job of the NHS is to put more resources into reaching the deprived and trying to redress some of the imbalance. I agree that it is right to rollout to younger groups too at the same time.

The issue at the moment is there isn’t enough supply really for 1st jabs. Rather than just say this, they are saying the focus is on groups 1-9 still.

Re giving it to 2nd dose people, as mentioned earlier, one of the key reasons for doing this is that they know suppply in 10-12 weeks will be limited. They are planning ahead and not offering 1st doses now because they know they won’t be able to offfer 2nd doses in 10-12 weeks. Of course, that has to be considered when offering 1st doses, rather than just ploughing on down the age groups. 2nd doses require no commitment for a further 10-12 weeks time and it’s better to get them finished off a bit early rather than leave people who had the first dose without a 2nd outside of 12 weeks.

It makes sense when you think of it.

Of course what we’d all like is enough doses to do the 2nd jabs, mop-up those who haven’t taken it yet from groups 1-9 and enough to keep pressing on with group 10, whilst knowing supply is secure for the future 2nd jabs needed for those getting 1st doses now. But supply is t secure for doing all that.

I saw some newspapers in recent days reporting there's a plan to give the 19-29 cohort the one jab Janssen/J&J vaccine in July (but it won't be ready until then at the earliest). That suggests they're hoping to vaccinate the 30-49 group before then but if supply is limited then I guess it could be as late as June for some of us. It's frustrating the government isn't saying anything about it really - especially now they leaked (?) the Janssen/J&J plan for the younger age groups but even those articles say nothing about the 30s and 40s.

I just turned 40 and my GP called me for mine in Buckinghamshire

At 48, my health is VERY different to when I was a healthy 30 year old.

I hope the grouping isn't seen as 30-49. That's nearly a 20 year age difference in that grouping. In all other age groups it was five year bands, so I'd like to see 45s and over prioritised as the next official band on the NHS booking site.

@WaltzingToWalsingham

Sorry OP, I've got stuck on your sister having a boyfriend AND a husband. It all sounds very friendly if they're swapping vaccination booking stories. How does it all work?

OP did post '*husband' afterwards which should clear things

www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2021/03/C1228-Vaccination-of-adult-household-contacts-of-severely-immunosuppressed_31mar.pdf

This is the email from NHS England. From about 1/3 through it starts looking at completing cohorts 1-9 and what to do with any vaccine that is available beyond those groups.

I am now getting a bit concerned that it will be a free for all from the end of April and they'll just say "anyone can now come" and you'll have to queue at your local centre from 6am to get one. I wish they'd just continue with the age-based roll-out with appointments, and as someone said, pass doses to other areas if they are doing 20 somethings and they know the neighbouring area is still on the over 50s. That said, we all need doing at some point, so it's not a massive deal if a 20 something gets it now.

I'm in Derbyshire and all my colleagues who live in the area in their 40s have had first vaccine. My other colleague in her 40s lives in Nottinghamshire and can't book. It's definitely an area thing. I'm 30 and nothing yet.

I agree it's really annoying seeing how your vaccine access seems to be virtually a lottery now. I'm very nearly 50, and know of many many people younger than me (no health conditions or other reasons why they should get priority) who've been vaccinated. I understand that vaccinating anyone is better than vaccinating no one, but it makes no sense to an individual on the ground!

DH (late 40’s, obese, underlying conditions, front line key worker job involving face to face with hundreds and children) has been told no vaccine for the foreseeable future (England). Computer says no.

Rightly or wrongly, our family engagement and compliance with LFT’s has plummeted as a result. Have had to disengage. Too stressful to be continually asked to do this that and the other for 66 million other people, while getting fuck all help or protection ourselves.

2 weeks ago our local GP vaccination centre was on AZ.. I'd say 60-70% of day was very elderly/infirm having 2nd vaccine... Most of whom had first at home or local GP, rest were 1sts early 50 or mid to late 40s who all seemed suprised to be called but from discussions had either long term conditions or been to hospital for investigations in previous few years.

Yesterday everyone seemed to be less vaccinators - 2nd AZ vaccine, I'm told same next week.... then some monster days of 2nd Pfizer and 12 vaccinators for all day sessions.

So I'd say my area which is a general covid hot-spot is bending the rules... But in favour of over 45s who are more risky than those under

Covid is at risk of becoming a disease of poverty and deprivation. A key job of the NHS is to put more resources into reaching the deprived and trying to redress some of the imbalance.

Sorry don't agree once they have been offered it and they refuse fair enough let's crack on with the next person. If certain groups don't get the vaccine it isn't for the NHS to waste resources trying to convince them otherwise.

Hophop, I’m sure lots would agree with you.

If you read all the stuff from NHS England and government though, you’ll see that the government position is very much to try and try again with those who haven’t speedily accepted the offer of a vaccine.

Personally I think we should rollout to younger groups whilst still contacting those who didn’t book a jab in earlier cohorts. Both should happen together. And in the time of bumper vaccine that is what happened. But the key point now is there isn’t enough for proper rollout to new groups. April will see low 1st doses. It will mostly be those who were slow to get jabbed plus a few others, but most will be going to 2nd dose people.

In the end it doesn’t matter if we agree or not does it. The government has its approach and will use it. Ultimately if they can reach more people it will benefit us all.

I think it’s all a bit of a fudge to be honest. The real reason the jab isn’t being rolled out to under 50s properly is simply lack of sufficient supply. There is some continued follow up of earlier groups, but that isn’t taking the amount of vaccine that would have been used on under 50s. It’s just they want to say they are still pressing forward with first doses. The reality is there is less dosage available for 1st jabs...less than 100,000 yesterday and possibly less as the week goes on.

Yes, they want to follow up those who don’t accept the jab (some have 10-15 follow ups....consequences if them not getting jabbed is much bigger expense to NHS and taxpayer in long run if they get Covid) AND they want to continue rollout to younger groups but use don’t have enough vaccine for this at the moment. The

@Hophopandaway

Covid is at risk of becoming a disease of poverty and deprivation. A key job of the NHS is to put more resources into reaching the deprived and trying to redress some of the imbalance.

Sorry don't agree once they have been offered it and they refuse fair enough let's crack on with the next person. If certain groups don't get the vaccine it isn't for the NHS to waste resources trying to convince them otherwise.

I can see why you feel the way you do. I do too to an extent, but the problem is particularly in areas where many are refusing the vaccine, the deprived vulnerable who have had the vaccine but are still vulnerable will also be at risk. Through no fault of their own. The vaccine isn't 100% and anyway many at this stage will only have had their 1st dose.

The other main issue (and what the government is most worried about) is large groups of unvaccinated risks new strains developing. Potentially strains that the current vaccines are less effective at protecting against. It's a difficult balancing act.

Ideally 40s age groups in the most deprived places should be prioritised for spare doses. The areas merrily jabbing large numbers of healthy 20s and 30s seem to be receiving too much and/or need to send their seemingly large surplus to other places more in need.

@middleager
I suppose it's too late to change GP?

@Lemons1571 something's definitely not right if your DH isn't being prioritised. Is he not eligible as group 6? GPs can use clinical discretion. Have you written to ask?

44 here and had the call from Doc to have jab last Saturday. Somerset