Vaccine passports and mask exemptions

[salmonskinjerky]

The language around the vaccine passport debate has been really shocking - dehumanising, completely unnuanced and very dangerous indeed. It seems like the majority of posters on MN would support vaccine passports for everyday activities and the posters who admit to not being keen on getting the vaccine are called selfish, a danger to others and told that they ought to live as hermits.

I remember when there were a lot of threads about mask exemptions and the overall consensus was that people who felt unable to wear masks for various reasons should be allowed to go about their business without challenge, despite the fact that they posed an additional risk to the health of the people around them. This is in spite of the fact that an unmasked person posed more of a risk to others in the time before anyone had the protection of a vaccine than an unvaccinated person would pose to a person who had been vaccinated. The view that many held was that a mask exempt person should not be questioned about their reasons for not wearing a mask. And that it would be discriminatory to not allow them into indoor public spaces.

I would like to hear from people who make a distinction between people who are mask exempt and people who are unvaccinated for various reasons and why the two should be treated differently.

@reformedcharacters

I don’t understand why people consider concerns about vaccine passports as anti-vax, it’s about the right of bodily being preserved.

I agree as well, I’m quite happy to have the vaccine but I won’t be proving it to jobsworths on the doors of shops etc.

However this is another thing where the government and the media have translated not agreeing with the passports into being anti vaxer

The same way if you didn’t immediately fall for the fear last March or questioned anything you were a Covid denier

At least the anti-vax comments are better that being called a selfish murdering whatever

@Jo99996 I agree no one who is unvaccinated should be treated by the nhs. Also no one who smokes, is obese, drinks alcohol, takes drugs....

How many supporters of this passport also supported the idea that the exempt should have been happy to tell all and sundry about their health details because of the mask?
Some in society will be rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of knowing people’s health stuff.

[quote Username198]@Jo99996 I agree no one who is unvaccinated should be treated by the nhs. Also no one who smokes, is obese, drinks alcohol, takes drugs....[/quote]
Oh that’s nice of you. Wanting to ban access to the NHS.
Another form of coercion.
What about those who cannot have the vaccine?

Should private health care also make the same bans or is that different because they pay. But oh wait, even then nhs hospitals are used.

How you going to feel sitting in the dentists waiting room not knowing If others are private or NHS?

@ihatethefuckingmuffin I think she was being sarcastic to make a point.

@bumbleymummy was correct @ihatethefuckingmuffin that was sarcasm

I am anything but an anti-vaxxer.
I am very much against passports but of course, at the same time, I can completely and utterly understand the support for them. Of course, I do. But the ethics around data sharing, the covid vaccine, and vaccine passports are more than questionable. People don't realise that behind the scenes, many GPs, for example, are fighting to protect patient data from being unleashed into unregulated hands. This is happening, in real-time. Your patient data, courtesy of the vaccine, is being asked for by bodies that do not have the capacity or infrastructure in place to protect your data that the NHS has worked valiantly to safeguard. And these bodies want to share your data with other unregulated bodies. This is an unprecedented 'ask' and the pandemic, of course, is the reason for sharing patient data across bodies that have never before had access to it. What that data will be and how much of it will be shared is something I do not have the answer to. This is a huge issue that nobody is aware of... or even cares about. There is a real possibility that the vaccine passport will expedite the loosening of those reins. I am amazed by the speed at which people allow their fear to encourage wholehearted trust in this government. Think critically (it's still legal!) before you say 'yes' to everything presented to you as 'the right solution'.

Oh okay sorry sarcasm is really hard to read sometimes.

@bumbleymummy yes, it depends on your personal risk assessment. I am late 40s and know a few people who have had Covid, some quite badly and with long covid, which is very worrying. To me after a year of lockdown I can wait for another couple of months for a vaccination before going to the pub/restaurants/shops, but work is returning to the office and I wont have any choice there. However if I was immune suppressed I would be more cautious still.
It will be interesting to see what employers do with competing 'rights'-those of the vulnerable exempt vs the unvaccinated by choice.

BellsaRinging

My employer (huge company) have been quite savvy in offering every employee permanent working from home if they want it.

@TheVanguard that is a really interesting (and chilling) post. Where can I read more about this?

From NHS website on when your choice to not share data does not apply:

“When there is an overriding public interest”

“In an emergency or in a situation when the safety of others is most important. For example, to help manage contagious diseases like coronavirus and stop them spreading.”

Yes, look into COPI notices from Matt Hancock to all bodies, including Local Authorities and may, although I am not sure, include the police.

Also see the posts I made in past pages about Palantir. I mean Palantir are a fab company but not sure they should be involved in the NHS. It is their Big Data software being used to collate, data match and analyse patient data during the COVID crisis and they do have access to all patient data although it has been pseudonymised for this current purpose.

Anyone else wonder how these vaccine passports would look?
I wouldn’t want an app that can be hacked on my phone.
I have already had to deal with the NHS and other government bodies telling me they lost/shared m my data (bank details) and the fall out from that

@Bythemillpond

Anyone else wonder how these vaccine passports would look? I wouldn’t want an app that can be hacked on my phone. I have already had to deal with the NHS and other government bodies telling me they lost/shared m my data (bank details) and the fall out from that

I hope they look like thin air.. as in they don't come in at all. An app doesn't sit well with me either. It astounds me how people are happy to carry about a tiny portable computer that has all of their life admin on... and how fucked they are when they drop it down the loo, or it gets stolen/hacked.

If this ridiculousness is rolled out as an app it’s easy to avoid by not having a smart phone. What’s the government going to do then? Put something in to force us all to have what is deemed by some a luxury item?

@Canigooutyet

If this ridiculousness is rolled out as an app it’s easy to avoid by not having a smart phone. What’s the government going to do then? Put something in to force us all to have what is deemed by some a luxury item?

Exactly.

My dad, mum and aunt don't have smart phones. And have no desire to have them. All are vaccinated, but if they need an app to get into shops etc they won't be able to.

Add in the fact phones run out of charge or get forgotten. Not everyone is glued to their phone 24/7. Not the first time I've forgotten my phone and have needed to pop to the shops while out.

And if there’s a paper version it would be easy to forge 😂 just like actual passports, driving license and the rest

or dont, and accept your life is restricted.

The most 2020 / 2021 saying right there.

That's the scariest part about all of this imo, how the constant drip, drip, drip has completely changed our perspective on so many things.

From children's clothes and pints of milk being non-essential items, to having to prove you've had a medical procedure to access the very basics of public life.

No risk calculation. No critical thinking. No logic. Just The Science. The Rules.

I suspect there's going to be university degrees about this period when it becomes history. It would be fascinating if living through it wasn't so scary.

Milk is non essential remember, you can use cheese

all Username198 Well happy not to use the NHS if that means not paying taxes. It is a lot more than paying insurance for private care for some of us. How about that?

The thing with well do it or face restrictions is that you forget, those with live reducing illness are already restricted in what they can and cannot do.

I’m not supposed to eat junk food, drink, go on various activities and more because of my health.
So the threat of having the passport or being restricted makes no difference.

And if I’m not allowed to go pubs and restaurants not a problem. I can still enjoy good food and company elsewhere. Friends even have their own pubs in their back gardens. Not like dinner parties and BBQ’s are a new thing.

And what is to stop me going to pubs with friends and staying outside using either their ordering app or asking friends to go in and order?

And as for holidays. I’m not insurable anyway so makes no difference.
Yes really. I go through the process with anyone who cold calls me and I tell them the situation from the start. They are still hopeful and very, very apologetic at the end of the call.