Vaccine passports and mask exemptions

[salmonskinjerky]

The language around the vaccine passport debate has been really shocking - dehumanising, completely unnuanced and very dangerous indeed. It seems like the majority of posters on MN would support vaccine passports for everyday activities and the posters who admit to not being keen on getting the vaccine are called selfish, a danger to others and told that they ought to live as hermits.

I remember when there were a lot of threads about mask exemptions and the overall consensus was that people who felt unable to wear masks for various reasons should be allowed to go about their business without challenge, despite the fact that they posed an additional risk to the health of the people around them. This is in spite of the fact that an unmasked person posed more of a risk to others in the time before anyone had the protection of a vaccine than an unvaccinated person would pose to a person who had been vaccinated. The view that many held was that a mask exempt person should not be questioned about their reasons for not wearing a mask. And that it would be discriminatory to not allow them into indoor public spaces.

I would like to hear from people who make a distinction between people who are mask exempt and people who are unvaccinated for various reasons and why the two should be treated differently.

@Jo99996

Milk is non essential remember, you can use cheese

I remember that! That really was a wtf moment!

And the sobbing and shaking at people going to the shops for chocolate...

Oh the Easter egg debacle last year.

Formula milk was also a viable alternative to milk for some.

Although I suppose cottage cheese at a push might have worked in coffee 😂 wouldn’t want to try it though

Oh yes if you bought Easter eggs last year you were a murderer.

A local shop near me took advantage of the buying up of baby formula and started charging £20 a tin, a poor young mum was turned away in tears when she didn’t have enough to buy it.

We had a shop that did similar. Locals used their feet and stopped shopping there. Owner lived local and would blame the shop closing on Brexit like we were imbeciles and would quite down when reminded about purchasing formula and over pricing it along with other essentials.

Same here and hopefully they still don’t shop there, I know I never will.

Username198

I agree no one who is unvaccinated should be treated by the nhs. Also no one who smokes, is obese, drinks alcohol, takes drugs

So how many people don’t smoke, don’t drink, don’t do drugs and are a sensible weight are there in the U.K.
It would certainly get the NHS working properly if there were so few people.

Mind you how many of the NHS staff wouldn’t qualify for the service they deliver.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sunset-clause-planned-to-head-off-vaccine-certificate-revolt-8008kf298

[quote MercyBooth]www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sunset-clause-planned-to-head-off-vaccine-certificate-revolt-8008kf298[/quote]
Saw this earlier.

Surely nobody could believe the government on a ‘sunset clause’ when they have been repeatedly exposed as liars. In any case, they are encouraging the ‘no jab no job’ policy. Disgusting behaviour.

@withmycoffee

I wonder what 'body autonomy' people -those that think fears and phobias are sufficient reason for not being vaccinated or wearing a mask would have thought during the blitz of people said they were not blacking out their windows. Because they felt trapped and claustrophobic

Well said and I remember the air raids, the blackouts and hiding under my gran’s table during a raid, I can tell you when I sat for awhile after the vaccination I was thinking “This is a blooming miracle.” I was in awe of the brilliant minds and hard work that went into this opportunity to live our lives again. The Oxford AZ jab is being made on a no profit basis. This was to ensure that poorer countries to afford it.Easy to store and transport. We had no side effects but it looks as if at 79 I am pregnant so probably the vaccine!!!

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/03/grandparents-could-use-covid-passport-app-screen-birthday-party/

Biosurveillance on your own family.

The article makes a good point though. The contracts to develop these passports were being handed out whilst ministers at the same time were denying they were coming.

Gove categorically said you wouldn't need a vaccine passport to go to the pub on Sky News. When questioned on this in parliament recently, to great jolly laughing because all this is obviously so funny, he said about his own lies that "consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds".

When you are comparing people's reservations about vaccine passports with blacking out your windows during the blitz, do you have to actually switch off your brain to avoid the cognitive dissonance arising from your reasoning?

What’s even more mind bending is the amnesia when it comes to the reason there was a need for the blackout it in the first place.

Indeed! It would be quite funny if not so depressing and hopeless that people think like this.

I am hearing some EXCELLENT breaking news -

Boris is saying they won't roll out passports to pubs and restaurants after all. Just concerts/nightclubs/stadiums.

I mean needing them anywhere is wrong but thrilled he has backed down on hospitality.

I wonder if this is to do with the impending law suits from the hospitality industry, alongside Sacha Lord's expedited JR.

I’m still very sceptical dividedwefall as those activities will cover a large proportion of young people who will be desperate to do those things again then the next tactic will be the ‘success’ and then cue them needed for everything.

Hopefully it is in part due to the litigation. Sacha Lord won the substantial meal case. In Scotland another case was lost by the state because a man on church services was illegal. There are other cases coming up too.

If a vaccination does not make you 100% unable to pass on covid or 100% unable to catch it it and given we do not know how long the vaccination effects last - 6 months?? depends on person to person - there might well be a need for litigation if requirements are imposed by law.

Today police walked into a Catholic Good Friday service in London and required the service to stop. The people had registered in advance and were distanced but the police appeared not to believe that was the law. We have also had a total ban on marriage in London from 19 Dec to 29 March and eve now only 4 guests can attend (this applies even in areas with just about no covid.

People do have to tell others how they vote - my mother never did. Normally you also have a right to keep secret details about your health and vaccination status - indeed it is special category data under the Data Protection Act 2018. Masks and CV19 vaccine passports undermine those principles.

@dividedwefall

I am hearing some EXCELLENT breaking news -

Boris is saying they won't roll out passports to pubs and restaurants after all. Just concerts/nightclubs/stadiums.

I mean needing them anywhere is wrong but thrilled he has backed down on hospitality.

I wonder if this is to do with the impending law suits from the hospitality industry, alongside Sacha Lord's expedited JR.

A lot of pubs also double up as a nightclub on weekends. So, how is that going to work? I will be voting with my feet anyway. I also don't believe a word he says.

@XenoBitch I know. He is a pathological liar. But it shows (2 major concessions on this in one day) that the opposition is too great and the law is not on their side.

I agree if he gets it through in it's basic form, which should also be illegal, he will attempt to expand it. But I agree with Xenia that the legal situation is not in their favour and people were not taking it lying down like they have almost everything else.

@blueangel19 @Bythemillpond It was sarcasm, I was making the point to an earlier poster that if you exclude people for choosing not to have the vaccine then why not other lifestyle choices. Personally I wouldn’t exclude any of the above.

I wonder if the roll out to hospitality wasn't actually going to happen straight away, but they leaked it as such to get people going crazy over it. Then they 'concede' that they will leave hospitality alone so it looks like we won and accept the 'just big events then'.

We've talked about the psychological abuse we've been subjected to all year. Maybe this is just a continuation of the same.

I wonder if they will staff the big events from just the vaccinated.
Both dc haven’t been vaccinated yet have already been booked onto shifts. Will that mean they can’t work?
And if so for how long will it go on for?

Also interested in what format these passports are going to take

Abusive partners don’t correct their behaviour when it’s exposed.

It’s likely the scare tactic of pubs was used to make the public think the government listened when they were not in favour but actually this wasn’t the plan just yet as realistically a large amount of the population will remain unvaccinated for at least a couple of months.

Michael Gove is asking the public (Telegraph readers) to give him some feedback on the covid passport idea. The comments are brilliant

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/03/time-discussion-covid-certification/

Why not have some events where it is necessary and some where it isn’t? That way you cater for people who choose not to be vaccinated and those who cannot, but are vulnerable (so rely on herd immunity).

I think for medical/care jobs which have close contact with a lot of patients (who may not be able to be vaccinated), I could understand if it was necessary - just like hep b vaccine and masks during most surgery.