Can we please stop saying the vaccine does not reduce transmission?

[Frequentflier]

It does. Plenty of evidence now out which everyone can find for themselves. edition.cnn.com/2021/03/29/health/pfizer-and-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-work-wellness/index.html

It is up to you to not take the vaccine if you don't want to. But please stop dressing it up as an unselfish choice if you have no conditions that stop you from taking it.

I do know what I am talking about though. Not necessarily because I work for the NHS but because I have a PhD in a science subject and I read and interpret lots of scientific literature all the time which I guess you don't.

People don't have to believe that of course they can just read my posts and see for themselves of what I am saying makes sense

It was actually one of the very few times I have posted a biscuit in over 10 years on Mumsnet but I thought you had specially deserved it.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

I do know what I am talking about though. Not necessarily because I work for the NHS but because I have a PhD in a science subject and I read and interpret lots of scientific literature all the time which I guess you don't.

People don't have to believe that of course they can just read my posts and see for themselves of what I am saying makes sense

It was actually one of the very few times I have posted a biscuit in over 10 years on Mumsnet but I thought you had specially deserved it.

Whatever gets you through your day

@Covoidofallhumanity I have been following your great posts on other threads and they have all made a v complex subject clearer to me. I wish the UK govt had better communication on AZ, after the steps taken by Germany and Canada. However the world's biggest 'trial' of AZ has begun. India has started vaccinating all people over 45. We should see some good data there. There is widespread acceptance, I think.

@winched I’m sorry that’s a huge amount of ‘whataboutery ’ nonsense. I’m not even sure I can begin to answer it.

I think it needs to be recognised though that in the majority people who don’t want to be vaccinated don’t want to be through fear.

Fear is not logical. It can’t be rationalised. The people too scared to get it, are not capable of rational thought over it.

Of course the risk of getting Covid and being extremely ill or dying, even as it stands now in terms of spread are significantly higher than the risk of being impacted by the vaccine. Of course if you’re unvaccinated and go into a pub, restaurant, workplace, shop, see friends and don’t stay six feet apart and wear ppe you risk catching it.

Covid passports would save these people from themselves. It would protect them, as well as their loved ones, friends, family, colleagues and randoms they may inadvertently spend time close to.

Thr arguments are completely illogical. I can’t get the vaccine as I’m too scared. It’s untested, it might cause a blood clot etc but I want to go ans integrate into a society where Covid is spreading.

It’s like saying I know I am at risk of a car crash, I know I’m at risk of an asteroid plummeting to earth and killing me. I shall drive drunk and without my seat belt, and take the car risk, but I will build a asteroid proof bunker because that’s what terrifies me.

There’s no arguing with it. It’s pure fear.

Covid passports would save these people from themselves

Have you honestly heard yourself?

Do you honestly think that this government want to protect those that are a burden to them? Those they see as the least value adding?

PoorlyKitten - "I’m sorry that’s a huge amount of ‘whataboutery ’ nonsense. I’m not even sure I can begin to answer it."

What an absurd comment. An analogy: so, on that basis, you'd enter into a contract without reading it, looking at the terms and conditions, considering its implications?

@Bluntness100

I think it needs to be recognised though that in the majority people who don’t want to be vaccinated don’t want to be through fear.

Fear is not logical. It can’t be rationalised. The people too scared to get it, are not capable of rational thought over it.

Of course the risk of getting Covid and being extremely ill or dying, even as it stands now in terms of spread are significantly higher than the risk of being impacted by the vaccine. Of course if you’re unvaccinated and go into a pub, restaurant, workplace, shop, see friends and don’t stay six feet apart and wear ppe you risk catching it.

Covid passports would save these people from themselves. It would protect them, as well as their loved ones, friends, family, colleagues and randoms they may inadvertently spend time close to.

Thr arguments are completely illogical. I can’t get the vaccine as I’m too scared. It’s untested, it might cause a blood clot etc but I want to go ans integrate into a society where Covid is spreading.

It’s like saying I know I am at risk of a car crash, I know I’m at risk of an asteroid plummeting to earth and killing me. I shall drive drunk and without my seat belt, and take the car risk, but I will build a asteroid proof bunker because that’s what terrifies me.

There’s no arguing with it. It’s pure fear.

I think this will improve as more and more people get the vaccine and there is more evidence on its effectiveness. I also hope that Pfizer and Moderna become available in the UK.

Here’s a great article on immunity after vaccines for those struggling with the concept @bumbleymummy
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.firstpost.com/health/why-you-should-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-even-after-youve-recovered-from-coronavirus-9476841.html/amp

@PelvicFloorTrauma in what way is a post on mumsnet in any way, shape or form a contract? I just don’t have time to sift through rubbish.

My sister in the US had Covid and was advised to get the vaccine anyway. After 3 months.

@PelvicFloorTrauma

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This is a dangerous and misleading post. Vaccinations have improved and saved more lives than any other public health intervention.

Scaremongering such as this, is disgusting.

If it wasn’t for vaccinations, a huge percentage of the world wouldn’t be here. Many of you might call that natural selection I’m sure but I, for one am extremely grateful this is the case. The above is what I mean by scaremongering.

I think this will improve as more and more people get the vaccine and there is more evidence on its effectiveness. I also hope that Pfizer and Moderna become available in the UK.

I get what you’re saying but 327 million people globally have had it. I’m not sure it’s about numbers, as said, fear is illogical in this. I think it’s time. They want to wait something like ten, twenty, thirty years to ensure there is no long term effects. Of course their risk from Covid is greater, but as said, it’s not a logical argument.

We are all posting rational responses, but it’s still “it’s my right not to get vaccinated and I want to have full freedom in society but I’m too scared to get the vaccine in case there’s a negative impact, and I’ll take the higher risk of Covid”.

Bluntness100

Does your punished based model involved camps for those who refuse?

I don't agree with you on covid passports, Bluntness. I support them for international travel, but am hopeful that enough people will get the vaccine-eventually- to make them unnecessary in restaurants and pubs? Is this not doable? I hope so anyway. The workplace will have to have its own rules, depending on the nature of work, I guess. In the meantime, I will be wary of crowds and confine myself to outdoor activities.

@reformedcharacters

Bluntness100

Does your punished based model involved camps for those who refuse?

Try to calm down and have a reasoned discussion. I understand it’s emotive, but lashin out is not helpful, as said when you keep resorting to personal attacks you loose the argument,

Covid passports would save these people from themselves

And in this improved dystopian society according to you will we have sobriety passports to save the alcoholics from themselves? State-mandated diets to save the obese people from themselves? Ban them all from public life until they comply.

People don't like "whataboutery" because it shows how extreme their opinions are over ONE specific issue.

Op I think so yes, eventually it won’t be required, but we are not there yet,

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56594189

This BBC article puts the rare blood clot issue into perspective and shows clearly that the risk of dying COVID, even in your 50s, is much much less than the risk of dying from a rare blood clotting disorder.

• *[Edited by MNHQ - fixed link] **

Bluntness100

Show me the personal attack? It’s a genuine question I don’t think you are seriously considering the implications of a two tier society.

Bugger. Link doesn't work
Anyway it's in the BBC news website and this was the important bit

Based on the Germany data alone, if you vaccinate a million people then you would expect 12 to have a blood clot and four of them to die.

But if a million 60-year-olds catch coronavirus then around 20,000 would die of Covid-19. If a million 40-year-olds catch coronavirus then around 1,000 die. It would be a few hundred people in their 30s.

There's a frightening lack of understanding of the science in many posts.

What the fuck is wrong with them? Stupidity, I guess.