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Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

999 replies

Boringlynormal · 30/03/2021 10:18

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

OP posts:
TimeQuest01 · 05/04/2021 11:52

@mudpiesfortea, thanks for letting us know she’s recovering well.

Must have been scary.

FourWordsImMuNiTy · 05/04/2021 11:53

David Spiegelhalter’s comments are balanced as ever.
mobile.twitter.com/d_spiegel/status/1378273555482312704

NRCS · 05/04/2021 11:54

Seeing an interesting theory popping up on the science subs I look at - that it could be due to the way the vaccine is administered - i.e intramuscular with no advise to aspirate these days (check you haven't randomly hit a blood vessel and hence are injecting into a blood vessel, not the muscle). Theory is that the VIPIT could come from those random occasions where the vaccinator injects into a blood vessel by mistake and that women could be more prone to that as have less muscular mass in their forearms - maybe then the effect compounded by blood vessels already altered by being on the pill for many years. Lots of less experienced vaccinators, recently trained up due to the covid vaccination programs could also compound this. Seen more with AZ maybe as used a different form of the spike antigen that may have more of an effect on platelets in the blood than the forms used in other vaccines.

If so easily fixed by changing the guidance that the vaccinator has to aspirate first to ensure intramuscular injection when giving the injection - apparently the guidelines have already been updated in Denmark.

MNIsADumpsterFire · 05/04/2021 11:58

@bumbleymummy WTF do MMR reactions have to do with this? I had Covid this time last year - I wasn't hospitalised but for me it was a shitty, debilitating illness with lingering post-viral effects which went on for 6 months. It's scary how fast you can go downhill with it. I was 44 at the time, active and healthy, hadn't had a day off sick in 5 years.

Take the AZ vaccine with its miniscule risks, or prevaricate and wait around in hopes of another vaccine? I live in a badly affected area of England with stubbornly high case rates and one of the worst death rates, so in effect do I wait around to catch that shit again, and maybe keep catching it every 6 months (maybe not, but so little is known about immunity and many scientists don't seem optimistic...)? Have all the fun of wondering whether it'll be milder next time, or maybe it'll be worse and I'll end up in hospital? Enjoy the much higher risk of getting a blood clot through Covid? Maybe it'll damage my heart this time, assuming it didn't last time? (DH also got sick and still has unexplained chest pains now). Wonder how my lungs will cope with another round of infection? Nah, fuck that shit all the way to fuck. I got my first AZ jab 10 days ago, and I'm glad I did it.

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2021 12:04

[quote MNIsADumpsterFire]@bumbleymummy WTF do MMR reactions have to do with this? I had Covid this time last year - I wasn't hospitalised but for me it was a shitty, debilitating illness with lingering post-viral effects which went on for 6 months. It's scary how fast you can go downhill with it. I was 44 at the time, active and healthy, hadn't had a day off sick in 5 years.

Take the AZ vaccine with its miniscule risks, or prevaricate and wait around in hopes of another vaccine? I live in a badly affected area of England with stubbornly high case rates and one of the worst death rates, so in effect do I wait around to catch that shit again, and maybe keep catching it every 6 months (maybe not, but so little is known about immunity and many scientists don't seem optimistic...)? Have all the fun of wondering whether it'll be milder next time, or maybe it'll be worse and I'll end up in hospital? Enjoy the much higher risk of getting a blood clot through Covid? Maybe it'll damage my heart this time, assuming it didn't last time? (DH also got sick and still has unexplained chest pains now). Wonder how my lungs will cope with another round of infection? Nah, fuck that shit all the way to fuck. I got my first AZ jab 10 days ago, and I'm glad I did it.[/quote]
Why are you asking me? I’m not the one who posted about it originally. She was pointing out that the reaction is described as ‘rare’ when the incidence is 1 in 1000. I just pointed out that that, for most people , the risk of coronavirus is even lower than that. Are you arguing against that? It’s backed up by statistics.

FourWordsImMuNiTy · 05/04/2021 12:10

The interview with Neil Ferguson was on the Today programme this morning, at 1 hour and 34 minutes into the show if you want to hear for yourself on BBC Sounds. Just about to listen myself.

Mumtwoboys90 · 05/04/2021 12:14

@NRCS when you say aspirate what do you mean?

Schulte · 05/04/2021 12:15

Sorry should have said, the snippet I posted was from the Telegraph. 10.01am news post under this link: www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/uk-update-cases-news-deaths-latest-vaccine-today-test/amp/

I have been grumpy for days now as I may get called this week (DH is immunosuppressed) and I’d now rather wait a little longer. It’s a difficult situation to be in.

Fieldofmemes · 05/04/2021 12:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fieldofmemes · 05/04/2021 12:19

I'm sure my maths is wrong - someone correct me

Fieldofmemes · 05/04/2021 12:23

I should stop thinking out loud... They must be assuming that the VIPIT risk is highest in much younger people, who are still not being vaccinated. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Mumtwoboys90 · 05/04/2021 12:23

@fieldofmemes god is the blood clots risk 1 in 20,000 in Norwegian figures?

NRCS · 05/04/2021 12:25

LMGTFY

An injection is defined by the World Health Organization (WHO) as parenteral administration of medication through a skin puncture via a syringe, while aspiration is defined as the pulling back of the plunger of a syringe (for 5–10 seconds) prior to injecting medicine 1– 4. Aspiration is most commonly performed during an intramuscular (IM) or subcutaneous (SC) injection, and is meant to ensure that the needle tip is located at the desired site, and has not accidentally punctured a blood vessel.

Mumtwoboys90 · 05/04/2021 12:25

i hope you are wrong Sad im getting so confused about all of this
do we still not have info on how many younger people have had the AZ vaccine in the UK? otherwise we dont know how high the risk really is

Sakura7 · 05/04/2021 12:29

@NRCS Interesting theory alright, but what about the age factor? Older people would also have less muscle mass, but they're not affected by this disorder. We also don't know at this point if the majority of those affected were on the pill or not.

Fieldofmemes · 05/04/2021 12:31

I am wrong - he said delaying 500K over a month, so not 500k every day. Then the risk is a lot more balanced.

Fieldofmemes · 05/04/2021 12:35

@Mumtwoboys90 yes but Norway seemed to have it the worst. To be fair the cohort they vaccinated was young - healthcare workers. I think the German figure was similar though. I'm going to delete that previous post though because I DID misinterpret what Vallance said.

Mumtwoboys90 · 05/04/2021 12:44

thats what so scary though and makes me think ours is only lower because we havent vaccinated as many younger people......

Fieldofmemes · 05/04/2021 12:45

@Mumtwoboys90 it's still very, very rare and the benefits of AZ still outweigh the risks of Covid unless, say, you are in the very lowest risk categories (say Group 12) - but it sounds like those groups will get a different vaccine anyway. Either way, it makes more sense to get the vaccine than not.

mumsneedwine · 05/04/2021 12:45

We've vaccinated the NHS. Which is full of young woman (my own DD being one of them).

NRCS · 05/04/2021 12:47

@sakura7 I'm not sure we can really say older people aren't affected by weird blood clotting events post vaccination can we? many elderly people would have suffered strokes etc post vaccinations, casual or not, and it would just have been put down to age, poor health anyway etc and far, far less likely to have been reported on the yellow card system or equivalent system in other countries (where, incidentally, there have been multiple reports of yawning and sneezing as side effects of the AZ vaccine..) - people only report/notice unusual effects/deaths and this is unusual, albeit it extremely rare, in people under 55.

So under 55 effect more likely to be noticed/reported anyway than in older people (where it is much harder to find a vein anyway isn't it?) And/or those under 55s also had some health condition or auto-immune condition (known or unknown - many things don't show up til 30s/40s) which predisposed them to whatever effect the vaccine component is having, possibly only if injected into a blood vessel by mistake, whcih would explain the small numbers - i.e doesn't happen to all, most, half or even that many women under 55 who have had the AZ vaccine - few hundred world wide at most out of millions of vaccine dose given as of current reporting.

I also find it telling that most of the countries that have recommended the vaccine not be given to younger people now are setting the cut off at or around 55 - the age when most women are recommended to come off hormonal contraception or will be doing so anyway due to menopause. Makes me think the have some information to suggest any effect may be connected to blood vessels weekend/affected by artificial hormones? Out of the system or not present in older people, generally.

Mumtwoboys90 · 05/04/2021 12:52

ah ok most nhs workers i know had Pfizer i dodnt realise Az was used too

TimeQuest01 · 05/04/2021 12:54

@NRCS

I read this referenced in a Spanish newspaper yesterday.

It’s a theory raised by a french organisation called Du cote de la Science (On the side of science).

The paper is obviously in French, but if you enter the last two paragraphs on Google translate, it’s the same theory you’re explaining on your post.

ducotedelascience.org/evenements-thrombotiques-apres-le-vaccin-astrazeneca-et-si-cetait-lie-a-une-reponse-immunitaire-discordante/

Fieldofmemes · 05/04/2021 12:57

@mumsneedwine but how many of them got Pfizer instead? I agree if lots of NHS and care home workers got AZ it seems weird that we didn't see cases of CVST / VIPIT earlier... although even if the risk was known back then, those people are at higher risk of Covid through exposure / viral load so probably worth them having AZ anyway?

canigooutyet · 05/04/2021 12:57

Not everyone in the NHS has been vaccinated. I know several personally who haven't had it. Free choice and all that.

Same with not all the vulnerable have been vaccinated yet as some of our consultants have been advicing caution due to unknown contras. I'm so happy that I've been following medical advice on this as I'm still in my 40's.