Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

[Boringlynormal]

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

*I had the AZ vaccine last Tuesday and not a word of warning. No details about possible symptoms of blood clots. What to look out for. What to do. Nada. I'm 49 and in the slightly more at risk group.

Is this normal?*

@QwertyGirly - From my experience it's normal for some things and not others. I've had high radiation scans with no warning - but the pill and others with warning or leaflet with side effects.

Vaccines (I'm only going on the ones my kids have had) have had no leaflet or warnings. We've had issues afterwards and I've been shocked at the stuff we were not told. I'm sure that legally people should be made aware of potential side effects before being vaccinated. But it seems not.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity listed as a precaution on EMA product information leaflet
www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/product-information/vaxzevria-previously-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-epar-product-information_en.pdf

I had my 2nd vaccination today but it was Pfizer.
Before anyone thinks I therefore should not comment I did also take part in the AZ vaccine trial although I found out at the end that I had placebo. I was entirely willing to have it put in my arm way before we knew as much as we know about it now even and I still would if that's what I had been offered. In fact I had a slight preference for it as it's a more proven technology than the Pfizer/ Moderna one
At the point I was vaccinated I was absolutely happy to have any vaccine at all having worked on COVID wards and seen what COVID did to my patients and some of my colleagues. I was even happy to have it having already had COVID and not been too terribly ill because I want to avoid the guilt of giving it to someone else who has a bad time.

Today (as last time) I was required to give my medical history and to sign that I had read the patient info sheet containing any officially recognised side effects including risk of dying from anaphylaxis. Surely that is standard practice.

Everyone in my area that has had the jab got a photo copy of vaccination leaflet. My husband showed me his. It is like the one you get with medication. Explains what the jab is, possible side effects, etc

The blood clot stuff is so recent that wouldn't be on anything yet.

That's the SPC not the patient info sheet and the target audience of that is professionals. Also it isn't in the ADR section as an official side effect it's in the 'special warnings and precautions' section which doesn't imply official recognition as an ADR. Anxiety and vasovagal reaction (ie needle phobia) is in there and it doesn't mean that is vaccine related it just literally means 'here is something you should look out for'

You would not be negligent as a healthcare professional not to warn someone of something that isn't an officially confirmed ADR although you should be willing to discuss anyone's concerns.

I think it's good that it's there to raise awareness but it isn't the same as official recognition as an ADR.

Agree the benefits outweigh the risks.

I don't think things are going too well in Canada. According to the article, covid is killing faster and younger.
www.businessinsider.com/canada-3rd-covid-19-wave-young-people-new-variants-2021-4?r=US&IR

@Sakura7

The benefits of AZ outweigh the risks for the overall population, but increasingly that does not appear to be the case for younger women. When other vaccines are available that do not cause this clotting disorder, it seems a no brainer to offer those to women under 55 instead.

It doesn't sound like this is the case in the UK re: availability of other vaccines though? Not anytime soon anyway. Only 17 million doses of Moderna ordered, Pfizer sounds delayed and needed for 2nd doses, the other vaccines not even approved here yet and not expected for some time? So for most of us the choice is probably either AZ and at least have protection against covid as restrictions are lifted, or wait until autumn for the possibility of getting another vaccine (which may or may not have the same clotting risks anyway).

re the not being able to book as unpaid carer i know several people last week who did at vaccination sites who were asking people of any age to come and book via that system because they had spare/ missed appointments/not enough uptake and telling people to let people know and book my brother had his this way....now its not possible anymore

@nordica Fair point, but I think the government were foolish to rely so heavily on one provider for this very reason. The smart approach would be to have a portfolio of vaccines to work from.

It seems likely that the clotting disorder, in a tiny number of succeptible people, is caused by the covid spike protein antibodies doesn't it? So all covid vaccines will carry this tiny risk won't they? (as well as getting Covid itself of course)

I wonder if they will advise younger women to come off the pill for awhile before being vaccinated? How long does the effect on blood clotting take to subside? I have to say, I alwsy thought the hormonlay contraceptive pill could never be as safe as made out and would come back to bite people one day.

but are clots more common in women who have covid?

we dont even know if the women who jad these clots after the az vaccine were even on the pill?

The government did order a large number from a large portfolio of vaccines Sakura. They absolutely didn’t put all their eggs in one basket. It’s just the luck of the draw that they’ve ended up with far more AZ than anything else for the next couple of months.

If the choice was simply to give AZ to women of age 20-49 or to give them something else then it might be simple. (Although remember that of the vaccines we have on order, only Pfizer and Moderna have really vaccinated enough people worldwide to pick up this kind of rare reaction. It’s perfectly possible that Novavax or J&J could still throw out similar problems.)

The actual choice we have is to give AZ now or wait for two months or more to give something else. Waiting might be the right choice now that case numbers are so much lower - but we need more data and we need it fast, because it may come at the cost of slowing the reopening of the economy. Vaccinating men in priority to women was always arguably a good idea anyway, so maybe, depending on the data, that might be the right way to go for the under fifties in May.

Or whether they are /were all.women (the ones in Germany were mostly men I read). Or the status of the people who had it after the Pfizer vaccine. Not unreasonable it's related to environmental issues that change or alter normal blood clotting though I suppose. maybe the men were airline pilots or on BP medication or had an unusual auto immune condition or whatever.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

That's the SPC not the patient info sheet and the target audience of that is professionals. Also it isn't in the ADR section as an official side effect it's in the 'special warnings and precautions' section which doesn't imply official recognition as an ADR. Anxiety and vasovagal reaction (ie needle phobia) is in there and it doesn't mean that is vaccine related it just literally means 'here is something you should look out for'

You would not be negligent as a healthcare professional not to warn someone of something that isn't an officially confirmed ADR although you should be willing to discuss anyone's concerns.

I think it's good that it's there to raise awareness but it isn't the same as official recognition as an ADR.

if you scroll down the ema document you come to the package leaflet information.

Or whether they are /were all.women (the ones in Germany were mostly men I read).

It’s overwhelmingly women. 31 cases in Germany and only 2 were men.

All cases in France have been women.

It’s interesting what is normally defined as rare. From the NHS website:

“There's a small chance of having a seizure (fit) 6 to 11 days after having the MMR vaccine. This can be caused by having a high temperature in response to the measles vaccine virus.

It may sound alarming, but it is rare, happening in about 1 in every 1,000 doses given.”

@Circumlocutious

It’s interesting what is normally defined as rare. From the NHS website:

“There's a small chance of having a seizure (fit) 6 to 11 days after having the MMR vaccine. This can be caused by having a high temperature in response to the measles vaccine virus.

It may sound alarming, but it is rare, happening in about 1 in every 1,000 doses given.”

A higher risk than covid for most of us.

how is it not being reported?! i wonder if we will stop giving it to under 65s here....

I just saw this in the news:

Professor Neil Ferguson said the development of blood clots in people who had been given the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine raised fresh questions over whether young people should be given a jab.

The adviser, who has had the Oxford jab, told Today: "In terms of the data at the moment, there is increasing evidence that there is a rare risk associated, particularly with the AstraZeneca vaccine but it may be associated at a lower level with other vaccines, of these unusual blood clots with low platelet counts.

"It appears that risk is age related, it may possible be - but the data is weaker on this - related to sex.

"And so the older you are, the less the risk is and also the higher the risk is of Covid so the risk-benefit equation really points very much towards being vaccinated.

"I think it becomes slightly more complicated when you get to younger age groups where the risk-benefit equation is more complicated."

Prof Ferguson said the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) were "considering this matter very urgently" but added: "No vaccine, no medicine is risk free - it is always about a balancing equation against risk."

Glad to see they are on the case.

Agh, making me feel quite anxious about it - am due to get jab tomorrow, and am 51.

@Schulte

I just saw this in the news:

Professor Neil Ferguson said the development of blood clots in people who had been given the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine raised fresh questions over whether young people should be given a jab.

The adviser, who has had the Oxford jab, told Today: "In terms of the data at the moment, there is increasing evidence that there is a rare risk associated, particularly with the AstraZeneca vaccine but it may be associated at a lower level with other vaccines, of these unusual blood clots with low platelet counts.

"It appears that risk is age related, it may possible be - but the data is weaker on this - related to sex.

"And so the older you are, the less the risk is and also the higher the risk is of Covid so the risk-benefit equation really points very much towards being vaccinated.

"I think it becomes slightly more complicated when you get to younger age groups where the risk-benefit equation is more complicated."

Prof Ferguson said the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) were "considering this matter very urgently" but added: "No vaccine, no medicine is risk free - it is always about a balancing equation against risk."

Glad to see they are on the case.

Thanks for this.

thats interesting where did you fint that article?

Details of what happened to my friend - reposted with her permission...

On Wednesday I started to have foot and leg pain , cold cramps but the pain got so bad I went to A&E. The doctors were unsure and with good bloods they sent me home thinking it may be related to a previous back issue. It was while I was sat in hospital that I started to develop a bad headache on one side of my head.

I went home but the pain continued, the next day I was so unwell I spent the whole day in bed and into the next morning. Any movement caused my head to thud. The pain was not relieved with paracetamol, codine or ibuprofen. This continued into Friday morning.

I called 111 and went back to the hospital where a doctor diagnosed a migraine. I was very sick and found it difficult to talk as the head pain was so severe. Back home I went with my migraine medication but after two pills two hours apart my head pain was still there with no easing.

Another call to 111 and I got told to go to A&E. There is so much more to this story but to sum it up I have a blood clot on the brain and technically I have had a stroke. Thankfully there has been no damage and with treatment the clot should continue to stabilise.

My clot caused LOW PLATELETS in my bloods.

My reason for this post is please please take your symptoms seriously. You know your body and listen to it, don’t second guess yourself.

@Schulte phew. Finally someone significant willing to talk about it and saying the right things, not just sweeping it under the carpet. It really is only a question with younger age groups, I think, where the risks of death from Covid or severe Covid are so low - and where we (presumably) have more time to get other vaccines.