Why the hand wringing about sections of the population not taking up their jab.....

[TransplantedScouser]

I keep hearing people banging on about it.

They’ve been offered it
They refused

The outcome of any is surely their choice. Either by restricting what they can do due to passport or if they suffer badly from covid.

Much more important is the fact that they can also transmit the virus (and its variants) to those who are vulnerable, those who REALLY cannot have the vaccine due to health reasons, allergies, pregnancy etc.

So can the vaccinated. That's the problem with this vaccine, those who've had it feel safe and think they can't infect others. They can. The length of time a vaccinated person is infectious is reduced with the vaccine but they can still infect others.
So really the vaccine doesn't make any difference as far as social distancing is concerned.

Heath, you are discounting all the people who died apart from 400. Because to do anything else would be to admit that hundreds of thousands of people in this country have died. That your opinions are purely based on your own wants and needs and that's ok, but you can't run a country like that.

I think you're very wrong and that your statements are extremely misleading, deliberately.

Arguing semantics over whether a pm said the lockdown will be for 3 weeks, or we will review it after 3 weeks doesn't interest me as it's a moot point. The point is that no one expected a year later to be living like this but it suits a percentage of people who would want to be locked down even if the only fatality was a 3 legged goat in the scottish highlands. The cure has now become worse than the disease which any rational person would agree with but whenever this is stated, we hear about the " do lives not matter rubbish " despite more lives being affected directly and indirectly through the apparent " cure" killing people with a society which only seems to care about covid.

@amusedtodeath1

Heath, you are discounting all the people who died apart from 400. Because to do anything else would be to admit that hundreds of thousands of people in this country have died. That your opinions are purely based on your own wants and needs and that's ok, but you can't run a country like that.

I think you're very wrong and that your statements are extremely misleading, deliberately.

Hundreds of thousands of people havent died with covid, you're talking utter rubbish but no matter what data is presented to you, you're determined to believe covid is the equivalent of the black death. If you wish to keep on living in terror of covid feel free to remain holed away in the cupboard, but why enforce your irrational scaremongering on others ?

The "only" 400 under 40 isn't true. It's not only bigoted ageism, it's bigoted and ignorant ableism. The figure is for the under 40s without any underlying conditions. Remember that "underlying conditions" for the data include very common issues like ever having had a fractured leg or arm or mild asthma or depression or anxiety or all manner of other not about to cark it everyday medical events.

That depends on how you value life Heath. I'd go bankrupt if it meant lives were saved. Clearly others would rather let people die if it meant they wouldn't go bankrupt, or move to a smaller house, etc.,

It all depends on your priorities, I suppose. I have every sympathy with people feeling the financial effect of this pandemic, but I feel much, much more for those grieving the loss of a loved one.

Priorities. Morals. Integrity.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@dividedwefall,

But I could equally claim that, with Covid being a novel virus, you equally have no idea of the long term effects of even having mild COVID. There is evidence that even asymptomatic COVID can have a long term detrimental effect on the lungs and other organs. And it will take years to see whether the damage could be a precursor to lung cancer, for instance.

I would rather take my chances with an 'untested' vaccine based on long term proven technology than a novel virus.[/quote]
As a previous poster said, I wouldn’t knowingly infect myself with covid either.
Also, as much as you don’t know the long term effect of mild covid, you don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine either

Why do people think that countries (non-EU) are banning the use of the AstraZen vaccination for use on the under-55s - because their governments have scrutinised the SAFETY data. It is worth noting that it seems to cause most complications in females under 40.

It will be a national disaster for Boris/ Hancock/ Gove if it turns out the jab is unsafe. I say that as a staunch Tory supporter (although I will abstain at the next election but that is another story). I am and my kids are fully vaccinated for other diseases btw; I am not an anti-vaxer.

The irony is the deniers and anti vaxxers will be the reason why we have any further lockdowns. If they were as desperate as they claim for an end to it all, they'd embrace measures that are aimed at ending it.

And go check the excess death figures for last year. Cross check that with reported Covid deaths for last year. They're close and YES it is in the hundred thousands.

@Heathermary1995

Arguing semantics over whether a pm said the lockdown will be for 3 weeks, or we will review it after 3 weeks doesn't interest me as it's a moot point. The point is that no one expected a year later to be living like this but it suits a percentage of people who would want to be locked down even if the only fatality was a 3 legged goat in the scottish highlands. The cure has now become worse than the disease which any rational person would agree with but whenever this is stated, we hear about the " do lives not matter rubbish " despite more lives being affected directly and indirectly through the apparent " cure" killing people with a society which only seems to care about covid.

The point is that you continue to speak shit, spouting off incorrect 'facts' to fit your narrative despite evidence to the contrary.

@amusedtodeath1

That depends on how you value life Heath. I'd go bankrupt if it meant lives were saved. Clearly others would rather let people die if it meant they wouldn't go bankrupt, or move to a smaller house, etc.,

It all depends on your priorities, I suppose. I have every sympathy with people feeling the financial effect of this pandemic, but I feel much, much more for those grieving the loss of a loved one.

Priorities. Morals. Integrity.

You could save lives tomorrow if you went bankrupt so this is clearly not true! What a sanctimonious twat you sound!

@Tealightsandd

The "only" 400 under 40 isn't true. It's not only bigoted ageism, it's bigoted and ignorant ableism. The figure is for the under 40s without any underlying conditions. Remember that "underlying conditions" for the data include very common issues like ever having had a fractured leg or arm or mild asthma or depression or anxiety or all manner of other not about to cark it everyday medical events.

You can rant and rage about it, it doesn't change the statistics.. underlying conditions do not count " depression" or "anxiety " so stop talking utter rubbish

I'm grateful to live in a country that still allows its citizens bodily autonomy. Everybody has the right to choose whether they get vaccinated or not, and you might not agree with it, but that is the price to pay for living in a civilised society.

I had my vaccine on saturday and was 100% more unwell with the side effects of that than I was when I caught covid over xmas. I'm still recovering from the vaccine.

Covid on the other hand was brilliant as a lifelong insomniac who survives on very little sleep, the fact covid had me sleeping for 14 hours a night for 3 nights was the best thing ever! I miss sleeping that much . All my covid was, was a sore throat, very minor temp for a couple of hours and lots of sleeping.

Meanwhile the vaccine gave me 40 degree temperature for 3 days, couldn't sleep, restless legs, very painful arm, headaches and lethargy.

The point is you dont know what reasons people have made their choices to vaccinate or not. For some people the thought of long covid post viral syndrome is the worst thing they can imagine so cant understand why you wouldnt vaccinate. Others like me who lived with PVS after glandular fever and was bedridden for 5 months and severely unwell for a further 18 months think the hysterics over long covid are ridiculous!!

I chose to vaccinate anyway, but I still respect my fellow citizens rights to choose.

well said @Quit4me

Canada has motivation to buy Pfizer and Modena from America. They're close trading partners.

The underlying conditions listed in government data on the deaths absolutely includes those conditions. It's easy enough to check it out. It's publicly available information.

@DumplingsAndStew You have obsessed over whether the Pm said measures will be reviewed after 3 weeks or will end at 3 weeks for the last 2 hours which is largely irrelevant. The reason you have done this is to deflect away from your lack of knowledge on the things that matter relating to the thread topic portraying yourself as a wise intellectual poster contrary to the clueless character you are.

amusedtodeath - is that you Carrie?

@Tealightsandd

The "only" 400 under 40 isn't true. It's not only bigoted ageism, it's bigoted and ignorant ableism. The figure is for the under 40s without any underlying conditions. Remember that "underlying conditions" for the data include very common issues like ever having had a fractured leg or arm or mild asthma or depression or anxiety or all manner of other not about to cark it everyday medical events.

The Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries and Risk Factors Protocol of 2013 stated that in 2013 only 4.3% of the global population didn't suffer from a health problem - or what we now like to term a "pre-existing condition"

www.healthdata.org/sites/default/files/files/GBD_2013_Protocol.pdf

Well, the AZ vaccine is only one of many vaccines, it has been approved by all the most respected drug approval committee's (if that's the right way to phrase that) worldwide. The EU have a grudge to bear against us for their collosal vaccine cock up and the fact that we dared to leave them. Yet approval has not been withdrawn by anyone, on a scientific basis.

If your young you won't be being offered any vaccine yet anyway.

@amusedtodeath1

That depends on how you value life Heath. I'd go bankrupt if it meant lives were saved. Clearly others would rather let people die if it meant they wouldn't go bankrupt, or move to a smaller house, etc.,

It all depends on your priorities, I suppose. I have every sympathy with people feeling the financial effect of this pandemic, but I feel much, much more for those grieving the loss of a loved one.

Priorities. Morals. Integrity.

It takes less than ten pounds to save a life in the third world so presumably the device you are typing on is worth more than that? I trust you will now do as you promised with your moral integrity and sell that device to save lives?

www.wateraid.org/uk/donate/donate-to-wateraids-work-in-africa?id=UN0000%2CRA/TPB%2COnlineRG%2CRA/TPB/01A&msclkid=5c40858a7ea51975f8ade5eec16f1c4a

Thankyou for your integrity and moral decency.. if we dont hear from you again we will know your device is packaged ready to be sold for the subsequent charitable donation.

[quote Heathermary1995]@DumplingsAndStew You have obsessed over whether the Pm said measures will be reviewed after 3 weeks or will end at 3 weeks for the last 2 hours which is largely irrelevant. The reason you have done this is to deflect away from your lack of knowledge on the things that matter relating to the thread topic portraying yourself as a wise intellectual poster contrary to the clueless character you are.[/quote]
Obsessed over? Ok, love. I posted a link after challenging your incorrect information. You ignored it because you knew you were wrong.

What lack of knowledge am I missing that you are displaying 'relating to the thread topic'? Please do treat me.

Only 4.3% didn't have a pre-existing health conditions. So that means 95.7% of the population have some health issues? I knew it was a large percentage but I didn't realise how large.

@amusedtodeath1

Only 4.3% didn't have a pre-existing health conditions. So that means 95.7% of the population have some health issues? I knew it was a large percentage but I didn't realise how large.

Happy to be shown otherwise. That's a shocking figure

Can anyone point towards a comprehensive and complete list of what the Government class as a pre-existjng condition for Covid statistic purposes?