Why the hand wringing about sections of the population not taking up their jab.....

[TransplantedScouser]

I keep hearing people banging on about it.

They’ve been offered it
They refused

The outcome of any is surely their choice. Either by restricting what they can do due to passport or if they suffer badly from covid.

I don't get it? What don't you undertsand about the perfectly understandable comment?

The aim isn't eradication.

No, it isn't. The aim was, as the PP said, to vaccinate the vulnerable and then ease restrictions. It now seems to be 'vaccinate everyone' and 'prevent new strains'.

Recovery after infection also confers immunity so if someone chooses not to be vaccinated and contracts the virus they are still contributing to herd immunity. As for those who can't be vaccinated, it's up to them to weigh up the risks, as they've probably had to do for other things in the past. There is always a chance that they could come into contact with someone who isn't immune - someone who was vaccinated but didn't develop immunity and/or is carrying the virus, someone else who can't be vaccinated, someone who hasn't been vaccinated yet (eg a child/young person) or someone who has chosen not to be.

But if we rely on natural immunity without vaccination, there will be people who may die along the way.

But we're not relying on natural immunity without vaccination - we have vaccines now too. People can choose if they want to be vaccinated or take their risk with the disease.(which for the majority of people is mild/asymptomatic)

Ah! So "the aim" is a mix of what posters across all SM say, as separate from the government, which is itself separate from SAGE, and even more separate from whatever hedline a borded journalist chooses to write!

I get it now!

It must be a free choice. Like all other vaccines.

The drug is still under trial. Drug companies are not having liability for it. If you were to fall ill or worse case die as a result of the vaccine, your only recourse will be against the Government. There is a vaccine scheme that you can claim against-the award is a max of around £120k. That is not very much! Yes most people will be saying " I had it, feel fine etc" But no-one knows the long term effects. They simply don't .

So it is absolutely right for people to examine whether taking this is right for them. It is their choice. They may ultimately prove to be the wise ones. Time will tell.

And no you don't restrict what people can do by way of a passport. That simply is outrageous. How can anyone think that is right or correct. Deny people services now because of a choice they make on a vaccine? If you do that, where does it end. Deny obese people, smokers access to the NHS?

Oh god!

Did I get enough to shout house?

Under trial - check
Big pharma doesn't have any laibility - check
Long term effects - check
Time will tell - check

All 4 corners, HOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUSE!

Too delicious, extra points for fatties and smokers!

One more and I'll be in for the double prize money!

But the above is correct. You can make fun and be rude instead of engaging in a proper debate like a grown up (your choice after all). But its correct!!!!!

I've had that debate here for a year now! I've been serious, responded with data, had deep and meaningful exchanges with posters who were seriously asking similar questions.

A YEAR!!!!

And still it comes! And it is no more true now than it was a year ago! Throw all the semantics at it you like... you are applying one interpretation of the truth. Not the whole truth, not the exact truth, not really in line with what did actually happen over the last 12+ months.

It needs to be challenged every time it is said. I am just scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as replies go, today!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Too delicious, extra points for fatties and smokers!

One more and I'll be in for the double prize money!

Experimental.

There you go :-) What do you win?

PS all of those things are true. Perhaps that's why people keep saying them.....

As I said, they are an interpretation, a worst reading of the truth. As has been discussed here ad nauseum!

I don't understand why the people who willingly swallow all the rubbish about foetal cells, big pharma, mercury, gov. control plots and whatever, the people who think that they are open-minded and er, 'considering both sides' etc etc don't ask:

Who is gaining from spreading this disinformation? Why is this disinformation targeted at the economically disadvantaged and particularly at ethnic communities? Who stands to gain from these communities being disproportionately slow to take up a vaccine that will save their lives? Who wants these communities to suffer disproportionately?

At the moment there are plenty of willing volunteers and not enough doses so it's not worth worrying about the tiny handful of refusers just yet.

@Haffiana

I don't understand why the people who willingly swallow all the rubbish about foetal cells, big pharma, mercury, gov. control plots and whatever, the people who think that they are open-minded and er, 'considering both sides' etc etc don't ask:

Who is gaining from spreading this disinformation? Why is this disinformation targeted at the economically disadvantaged and particularly at ethnic communities? Who stands to gain from these communities being disproportionately slow to take up a vaccine that will save their lives? Who wants these communities to suffer disproportionately?

@Haffiana perhaps it is being spread on purpose to undermine the arguments of those hesitant for genuine reasons.

When I hear people come out with arguments like mercury, shedding and foetal cells in covid vaccines I actually feel depressed as someone who doesn't want to take it. When these theories are proved false it makes everyone look stupid, which further reinforces the argument that only stupid people won't have it for stupid (and false) reasons. When that is simply not true.

perhaps it is being spread on purpose to undermine the arguments of those hesitant for genuine reasons.

@dividedwefall

I think you’re right. It’s easy to just lump everyone in under the ‘anti-vaxx’ label and the dismiss them as conspiracy theorists who think Bill Gates is trying to microchip them or whatever. You see it frequently on this board at the moment. I have literally been accused of being anti-vaxx’ minutes after posting a link to a study showing the effectiveness of the vaccines - you couldn’t make it up!

perhaps it is being spread on purpose to undermine the arguments of those hesitant for genuine reasons.

Absolutely correct.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Too delicious, extra points for fatties and smokers!

One more and I'll be in for the double prize money!

It's always smokers and fatties isn't it?!

@Purplewithred

Unfortunately their decision impacts on the rest of us:

• if they get seriously ill they will use up NHS resources and hamper our ability to get on with other treatments
• they give the virus the opportunity to mutate faster than we can keep up with it
• the vaccinated can still catch covid, so restrictions designed to keep Covid from transmitting will have to stay in place

" if they get ill they will use up NHS resources"

How come all the florence nightingales bar one have been dismantled then?

" the vaccinated can still catch covid"

If the vaccination is supposed to stop serious illness in those that have been vaccinated, what does it matter ?

Given that booster jabs are being arranged for the autumn, are people prepared to keep taking jabs every few months for a disease that has killed fewer than 400 people under 60 with no health conditions and an average age of death above life expectancy. If people aren't worried about the hundreds of women on here reporting missed periods and feel terrified enough of covid to get jabbed every few months fair enough.

I don't think its reasonable to expect any young person to subject themselves to a list of potentially grim side effects every few months for a disease that has a lower risk of death than crossing a busy road every day.

Each year thousands die of flu so perhaps the flu vaccine should have a two tier system of passports also or maybe people should take personal responsibility for their own health and their immediate family making a decision what to inject or not inject where we all have finite lives with the people prattling on about saving the NHS drinking and smoking themselves to an early grave eating rubbish.

Bless

@sashagabadon

I think we should keep going back over and over to those who are hesitant as they may change their minds. Some I know are not “refusers ” rather “not yet-ers “ and may say yes in the summer or autumn. And that should be encouraged.

so you want to keep harassing people basically

Because people have become so attuned to the cognitive dissonance and fear mongering of the government, ably abetted by all forms of media, that they need to vent their hysterical spleen somewhere, and this is the latest thing? Because everyone seems to be an armchair expert and wants to spout nonsensical rubbish? Because some are now so institutionalised and loving lockdown so much that they will pick up on anything to try to press a silly flim-flamming government into endless control?

@murbblurb

The ethylmercury based preservative in vaccines is considered safe by WHO. Methylmercury is the one you want to avoid so eat a bit less tuna.

Beyond that needs a lot more chemistry than my rusty a level and I'm sure the thick fuck antivaxers are also no experts.

Given that Canada and Germany have suspended the vaccine with other countries likely to follow for under 55s , feel free to send your medical qualifications to the drs there explaining why they are wrong with your academic expertise

@SpringTimeDream

I imagine it is because people want to get back to normal and the only way that appears to be possible is either a huge number being vaccinated for herd immunity or a full on lock down to eliminate the virus completely (that won't happen).

It's about getting to a situation whereby we can all return to a similar time to before - theatres/pubs/holiday travel/no masks etc.... if sufficient people won't/can't get vaccinated then we will have repeated lock downs - which I assume most people don't want...

Variants emerge when a virus is not eradicated and so can mutate and spread .... another reason

The whole purpose of any vaccine is for an individual to ascertain whether the risk of the virus they are vaccinating against outweighs the disease risk not getting vaccinated hoping the government opens the economy up. If having a vaccine you don't want for a disease that poses very little risk to most age demographics, then the problem isnt the virus but the society enforcing the absurd notion you have to inject yourself with something to live out your finite life. If you start giving up autonomy of your own body to the government then there is nothing left of any personal choice where there are literally no lines in the sand drawn with anything. We may as well make blood donation compulsory or maybe a kidney donated as we only need one to survive.. why should anyone take a vaccine that may/may not lead to missed periods, headaches, pain for a disease that doesnt affect the vast majority of people.

Were you masked up in the winter of 14/15 where 45000 died and with a flu jab? We were told last year it would be 3 weeks, now a year later despite the vast majority of vulnerable vaccinated no one can travel abroad probably till next year and fully expect we will be locked down next winter with a " new variant". If you take the current vaccine there will be boosters for the winter you will have to take- Im not prepared to keep taking jabs every few months but each to their own

We were told last year it would be 3 weeks

No, we weren't.