Why the hand wringing about sections of the population not taking up their jab.....

[TransplantedScouser]

I keep hearing people banging on about it.

They’ve been offered it
They refused

The outcome of any is surely their choice. Either by restricting what they can do due to passport or if they suffer badly from covid.

Because to have enough herd immunity to stop/reduce spread, we need certain % of people to be vaccinated?

[quote Jo99996]@BigWoollyJumpers but for the bulk of the population Covid doesn’t cause death either.[/quote]
That's entirely irrelevant. Just with any other mass vaccination the same would apply, but will still mass vaccinate. It's societal protection.

I imagine it is because people want to get back to normal and the only way that appears to be possible is either a huge number being vaccinated for herd immunity or a full on lock down to eliminate the virus completely (that won't happen).

It's about getting to a situation whereby we can all return to a similar time to before - theatres/pubs/holiday travel/no masks etc.... if sufficient people won't/can't get vaccinated then we will have repeated lock downs - which I assume most people don't want...

Variants emerge when a virus is not eradicated and so can mutate and spread .... another reason

@beginningoftheend

3) Those in highest groups for vaccine hesitancy are also in highest groups for risk of covid due to poverty, crowded housing, frontline work and lower general health

I have also noticed this. The ones spreading the fake information on vaccines seem to be the least educated in my experience.

I am very pro-vaccines in genera. But I think it’s fair enough if people don’t want to take up the Covid vaccine.

A close relative of mine works in this field and told me that the feeling among the bio science community is that the vaccines are safe and will work in the short term but right now, simply not enough is known about the virus or the vaccine to be able to say for certain that there will be no adverse effects later down the line. Chances are very high that everyone will be fine. But for some people that unknown element will be the decider and I don’t think anyone should be chastised for that.

Also, you really do not want to be opening the floodgates for forcing people to have medical treatment they don’t want. That sets a dangerous precedent that could be exploited later down the line.

I agree that it's because of the impact it has on others. Some of the unvaccinated people will spread covid. Some of the people they spread it to will die. This will include NHS staff who are treating them if they become very ill. It really lays bare the limits of our societal conceptualisation of of individual choice - how do we hold fast to an ideal of individual choice when others pay the price for your choice?

@foxhat but if you’ve taken the vaccine then surely you shouldn’t die? If the vaccine is so effective then you shouldn’t get seriously ill. If you are worried that you will die if you catch this virus, then by all means take the vaccine.

@Purplewithred

Unfortunately their decision impacts on the rest of us:

• if they get seriously ill they will use up NHS resources and hamper our ability to get on with other treatments
• they give the virus the opportunity to mutate faster than we can keep up with it
• the vaccinated can still catch covid, so restrictions designed to keep Covid from transmitting will have to stay in place

This is so irresponsible. You are pathologising the natural, unmedicated state as if it is something to be ashamed of. The propaganda is strong with this one.

Half-educating the public on scientific concepts such as variations will be used to justify turning people on each other. You do know this is part of the marketing plan to increase uptake? Come out with unscientific rubbish like this to make people feel that they have no choice to submit against their will.

For most people they will not need treatment. If 80% are asymptomatic as they claim, then there is nothing to worry about is there?

I really think we have to remember we are a civilised society and that we give people information and let them make their choice

I am utterly sick of the control element.

Yes it seems as if the vaccine is safe for the vast majority but nothing is guaranteed and people should be allowed to make that decision themselves.

The ingredients list of the vaccine is rather off putting. We have resisted GM food for decades and now we are urging people to inject themselves with GM modified monkey and fetal cells, albeit not the actual cells from the fetus.

I’m not anti vaccine but can understand why some younger people might say “mmm, let me just consider whether I want this now it’s in stage four trials’. This is my own position and I’m watching carefully

Those in highest groups for vaccine hesitancy are also in highest groups for risk of covid due to poverty, crowded housing, frontline work and lower general health

Indeed - which is why it's worth considering that further ongoing restrictions could do to communities who are already disadvantaged enough

As I've said so often (and never received a reply) how's it going to work if the refusers are excluded from work opportunities, entrance to various facilities, travel, etc, AND are from BAME communities?

We all know vaccination's a choice and that choices come with consequences, but somehow I doubt further exclusion will go down well ... so what is the answer to this?

As others have said, there are already massive health inequalities that impact some communities. Many of the people in low vaccine take up areas are not "anti vaxxers" or people who've had full access to facts and unbiased information and have made a personal decision to refuse.

The health service is also responsible for public health in general. For the same reason if you miss your smear test your GP surgery will keep sending reminders or calling you, and we're being told to eat our 5 a day and being discouraged from smoking.

we are urging people to inject themselves with GM modified monkey and fetal cells, albeit not the actual cells from the fetus

No chimpanzee cells either (which are apes, not monkeys).

So apart from containing no human or animal cells ...

Silly me toucan. That has removed my discomfit then 😁

@roguetomato

Because to have enough herd immunity to stop/reduce spread, we need certain % of people to be vaccinated?

Herd immunity can also be achieved through previous infection

@Roonerspismed

Silly me toucan. That has removed my discomfit then 😁

Removed your factual misconceptions at least.

In relation to variants and potential risk to others, it’s ridiculous to be concerned about a small percentage of adults not having the vaccine when millions of children/young people don’t have it.

The vaccines are currently tested on children and should be available thereafter.

@rosie1959

Fortunately they are in the minority on the whole vaccine uptake has been good I see little point in keep chasing those who dont want it let's get on with vacinating those who do

But how do you protect those who can't have the vaccine or for whom the vaccine may prove ineffective, i.e. such as cancer patients on chemotherapy etc? If they're being "cared" for by unvaccinated carers, nurses, doctors, etc., they're not as safe as they could be. Likewise if they're working in an office or depot alongside unvaccinated staff, or travelling on public transport (or taxis) alongside unvaccinated people.

You can't realistically "shield" people from the rest of society when they HAVE TO go out and about for work, cancer treatments, hospital appointments, etc etc.

[quote Newmama29]@foxhat but if you’ve taken the vaccine then surely you shouldn’t die? If the vaccine is so effective then you shouldn’t get seriously ill. If you are worried that you will die if you catch this virus, then by all means take the vaccine.[/quote]
Which is fine except for those unable to take the vaccine or from whom the vaccine may be ineffective due to health conditions/medication, etc.

Some on here need an injection of intelligence. What's with the utter refusal to accept facts?

Life has a 100% mortality rate. Nothing is risk free. Nothing is safe. The vaccines are safer than the disease.

Use your brains, people.

@Nerdygirl, yes, it can. But if we rely on natural immunity without vaccination, there will be people who may die along the way.

Life has a 100% mortality rate. Nothing is risk free. Nothing is safe. The vaccines are safer than the disease

Yes, but there are avoidable causes of mortality and unavoidable causes of mortality and everyone will asses risk differently according to their own beliefs and circumstances.

[quote Newmama29]@CuriousaboutSamphire no I’m all about educating & spreading correct information. What I don’t like is the way people are tarred as “crazy anti-vaxers” if they say they don’t want it yet, or want to look more into it. I also don’t like the way it’s being forced on people as if they’re a murderer if they don’t get it. I’m happy for people to educate others but I hate the judgement.[/quote]
Ah! I see. I know what you mean and wish I could erase those posts.

However, I have to balance that with my own posts being shot down as bullying, because I will try to give as much information as possible, and will persist in disagreeing with some posters reasoning - see the mercury debate above!

My biggest issue with "I want to look into it more" is that many people just don't know what to look for and are unable to understand the scientific papers when they do. So they rely on others, like our lazy journalists and worse, to translate it for them. THEN you get all sorts of disinformation - again see the mercury debate above.

It’s all linked isn’t it?

We move as quickly as the vaccination programme will allow

Higher take up will help

The issue is that if we have a third wave an even greater proportion of BAME people will die, which will probably lead to civil unrest.

A family member is a GP, and has reached out to over a thousand BAME people from his surgery who haven't had the jab yet. Eight replied. He's Indian himself and trying so hard to prevent what could look like a genocide.

Can I just laugh at those that think everyone being vaccinated means we get our lives back?

Wanksock in January :

When Covid hospital cases fall and pressure on the NHS is lifted, he says, ‘That is the point at which we can look to lift the restrictions.’ So what about herd immunity, vaccinating so many people that the virus dies out? ‘The goal is not to ensure that we vaccinate the whole population before that point, it is to vaccinate those who are vulnerable. Then that’s the moment at which we can carefully start to lift the restrictions.’ But at that point the majority would remain unprotected. Would he — as Health Secretary — still say it’s time to abolish the restrictions? ‘Cry freedom,’ he replies.

. People REALLY are that stupid as to believe anything that the government say with regard to release from ridiculous restrictions.