Vaccines: Refusers versus aspirers

[PuzzledObserver]

I sometimes think I'm living in an alternate universe.

There are all these posts over social media, including mumsnet, about how vaccines are evil, they are all sent to kill us, DO YOUR RESEARCH you sheeple.

And then there are all the other posts about so relieved my Mum had her vaccine, it's not fair that I/my mum/my friend who is CEV hasn't got their vaccine yet and the EU are trying to shaft us.

It's a bit disconcerting, if I'm honest. But then I look at the takeup numbers, and it does seem that those who want the vaccine are the large majority.

So, which are you?

1. Had it/will have it when invited
2. No way, Jose
3. Mmmm.... still deliberating.

I'm a 1.

@Frequentflier

I still haven't understood why all the governments in the world in tandem with all the top scientists in the world and the evil MSM are trying to kill me, but maybe I will get it when I develop a third eye in 2022.

MSM is supposed to be owned by only about 5 people apparently - so that would be easy. Scientists - plenty of scientists with differing opinions, but governments can choose to only listen and take notice of certain groups of them, and promote the ones with their agenda - so that is easy too.

The all the governments bit is the tricky bit. But dont forget they are obligated to people and countries who have lent them money. But I agree, all governments is stretching things.

@OpheliasCrayon actually I was offering an olive branch, and trying to gently explain that I have issues too that affect my decisions. You appear to be chronically lacking in empathy towards people who think slightly differently. Especially as I've explained I probably will be vaccinated. I've just got a few more hurdles to climb. How about having a bit of compassion for people very anxious and worried about this? Never mind. Maybe you really can't help it...

[quote WanderingFruitWonderer]@OpheliasCrayon actually I was offering an olive branch, and trying to gently explain that I have issues too that affect my decisions. You appear to be chronically lacking in empathy towards people who think slightly differently. Especially as I've explained I probably will be vaccinated. I've just got a few more hurdles to climb. How about having a bit of compassion for people very anxious and worried about this? Never mind. Maybe you really can't help it...[/quote]
As you said, you're definitely being over sensitive. I'm in no need of an olive branch but thank you

Compassion and empathy is completely missing @WanderingFruitWonderer

People want to say up the risk for themselves and that should be respected . If there is no risk why would liability be waivered?

If you are vaccinated and it works and you recognise that there is also natural herd immunity then you will have little to worry about .

@Nerdygirl thank you. I was starting to feel somewhat bullied by a PP. I really do appreciate your post

Wow! I'm not compassionate and a bully because I disagree with your beliefs on a public forum. You really need to get some perspective ....

2 - I would not take it for a million pounds

but then they starting saying things like they were going to “send the persuaders around to speak to refuseniks”

Who are "they"?

Definitely a 1 - couldn’t wait. Now waiting for the second vaccine.
I read up on the science beforehand and now have the benefits to me and those around me.
Accept that in a small number of medical cases it is not appropriate for people to have it if advised by a doctor.

@RampantIvy

but then they starting saying things like they were going to “send the persuaders around to speak to refuseniks”

Who are "they"?

Back in Feb, Vaccines Minister Nadhim Zahawi said he wanted local councils to identify people who had not taken up their offer of the vaccine, and to send someone round to find out why. Not happened as far as I am aware, although I have read of people who declined the vaccine being sent text reminders about it.

Well Ophelia'sCrayon you did accuse me of being selfish, when you know nothing about me. Even though I haven't even been offered the vaccine yet! And haven't even said I'm not having it when I get the offer. Just agonising over it. You also showed no remorse or compassion at all when I explained my mental health issues to you, which are just as valid as your physical health issues, soooo, yes...

@WanderingFruitWonderer

Well Ophelia'sCrayon you did accuse me of being selfish, when you know nothing about me. Even though I haven't even been offered the vaccine yet! And haven't even said I'm not having it when I get the offer. Just agonising over it. You also showed no remorse or compassion at all when I explained my mental health issues to you, which are just as valid as your physical health issues, soooo, yes...

Ok. As I said I'm not remotely bothered what you think of me and it causes me no grief whatsoever. If you think that's unkind or whatever, then I'm ok with that. But I stand by my opinion that I think yours is selfish. If that bothers you that's your issue, however in life I'm afraid you need to be able to accept that not everyone agrees with, or likes what you say. I'll leave it there.

OpheliasCrayon I'm not sure if you've even property taken in what I've been saying! Your responses haven't matched. Like you've been responding to different posts. Yes you have upset me. Very much indeed. I find it disturbing that that doesn't bother you. Moreover, you've not remotely helped me think more clearly about the issues, or make a decision re the vaccine. The opposite. You don't appear to understand the enormity of mental health issues? How powerful they can be. I can only conclude that you really can't help it, so I wish you well, and I too will leave it there

2 after DM’s reaction, no thanks.

@LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus

2 My personal view is that the younger generation should develop some natural immunity to it much like cold and flu viruses. Otherwise we will be forever dependent on vaccines to guard against new strains. I realise we would still get infected by new strains, but we surely would have some immunity so wouldn't be very likely to develop serious symptoms. I am concerned about the lack of colds and flu infections people have had throughout this pandemic. Once those numbers go up I think some people will develop a harsher illness due to reduced resistance as a result of hiding from all the germs for one+ year/s.

Seriously?? Which childhood ones would you have had cut to see if your child developed immunity?? There's some diseases that we have eradicated due to vaccination, we don't get "natural " immunity.

And te reason for less colds is due to kids being off school so it's not spreading as normal. Plus ppl are wearing masks. For the flu decrease is partly due to an increase in uptake of the flu vaccination , once again ppl being kept apart and face masks.

We are not all going to get a vast amount of viruses when restrictions ease. Just normal summer things. And in winter colds will be back hopefully the flu vaccine numbers will stay up. Then the selfless ppl who got vaccinated will hopefully keep Covid numbers down.

1 I'm in an EU country where I'm unlikely to be invited before the end of the summer (that's being optimistic) and I can't bloody wait.

1

Had both vaccines

Feel fine - and happy to have the third booster when that comes out too.

Back in Feb, Vaccines Minister Nadhim Zahawi said he wanted local councils to identify people who had not taken up their offer of the vaccine, and to send someone round to find out why. Not happened as far as I am aware, although I have read of people who declined the vaccine being sent text reminders about it.

Ah, right. That was The Times headline.

Reading on Gov.UK, towards the end of January there was cash allocated to Councils and Community Groups in some areas to reach older people, disabled people, and people from ethnic minority backgrounds who were more likely to suffer long-term impacts and poor outcomes from Covid. Don’t think that included banging on doors though. Plus Zahawi is an arrogant arsewipe.

@WanderingFruitWonderer

OpheliasCrayon I'm not sure if you've even property taken in what I've been saying! Your responses haven't matched. Like you've been responding to different posts. Yes you have upset me. Very much indeed. I find it disturbing that that doesn't bother you. Moreover, you've not remotely helped me think more clearly about the issues, or make a decision re the vaccine. The opposite. You don't appear to understand the enormity of mental health issues? How powerful they can be. I can only conclude that you really can't help it, so I wish you well, and I too will leave it there

I don't need to help you make a decision about the vaccine. That's your choice. Why on earth do you need random people to help you decide

I'm replying to what you've said. I fundamentally disagree with your opinion that you shouldn't have it because jts been tested on animals. I think that is selfish because your veganism, which, as I said isn't completely ethical anyway, is inappropriate and misinformed in this situation.

I have no intention of hurting you or anyone. Im sorry you're obviously very over sensitive to strangers online. But I have read what you said. I do not agree and I have absolutely every right to say that. If you do not like that, do not post online. If you cannot take that, do not post online because if you do post your opinion online people will comment on it. If you really are that sensitive that you think my comments are bullying you, I would be less concerned about whether you get a vaccine and more thinking whether you should be posting online at all. This happens - people disagree with you,. I disagree with your views on this vaccine and your veganism and I am allowed to say that, and it isn't bullying. It's someone disagreeing with you, and in life... That happens.

Just came across this thread and been reading through. What really bothers me is the communication between Ophelius Crayon and Wandering Fruit Wanderer which makes me feel quite uncomfortable. It's obvious that Wandering Fruit Wanderer was really upset by the reaction to her post (she did say she suffers from anxiety) so unnecessary to react to her so harshly. This is one thing that bothers me about mumsnet as it seems sometimes that the anonymity gives people licence to be quite insensitive in a way they would probably not face to face. It's possible to disagree but still be kind. Why do innocuous posts often end up with unpleasant responses?

@supperlover

Just came across this thread and been reading through. What really bothers me is the communication between Ophelius Crayon and Wandering Fruit Wanderer which makes me feel quite uncomfortable. It's obvious that Wandering Fruit Wanderer was really upset by the reaction to her post (she did say she suffers from anxiety) so unnecessary to react to her so harshly. This is one thing that bothers me about mumsnet as it seems sometimes that the anonymity gives people licence to be quite insensitive in a way they would probably not face to face. It's possible to disagree but still be kind. Why do innocuous posts often end up with unpleasant responses?

I'm inclined to agree here tbh. This subject will always stir up strong feelings but there have been some unnecessarily harsh posts.

@supperlover true but I think the anonymity itself should remove a lot of the sensitivity to unpleasant posts. People on here have different view points and won't ever agree so when someone says something mean to you, throw a grenade back and move on. No need to get upset.

@supperlover

Just came across this thread and been reading through. What really bothers me is the communication between Ophelius Crayon and Wandering Fruit Wanderer which makes me feel quite uncomfortable. It's obvious that Wandering Fruit Wanderer was really upset by the reaction to her post (she did say she suffers from anxiety) so unnecessary to react to her so harshly. This is one thing that bothers me about mumsnet as it seems sometimes that the anonymity gives people licence to be quite insensitive in a way they would probably not face to face. It's possible to disagree but still be kind. Why do innocuous posts often end up with unpleasant responses?

This. Neither are planning on having the vaccine... the whole conversation just smacks of "my reason is more valid than yours". If you don't agree with someone's reason (and especially if it is for mental health reasons... which I would argue that being a vegan and feeling distress about something that has been tested on animals would come under that), all you are doing by calling them out as selfish is to make them feel shit, and to make yourself look big. Why do that?

dividewefall- sorry, Im not a very experienced poster so don't know how to copy a post ( maybe someone can enlighten me) I would agree that for most folk that's true but we never know who's vulnerable so,whilst disagreeing is fine, it's when it descends into nastiness it's concerning. I just find this seems to happen too often on mumsnet. Maybe I should stay on gransnet where I belong!

Xeno Bitch-
You are absolutely right, although we'll agree to disagree about veganism . I'm not a vegan but do admire those who are as we're constantly being told it's the most environmentally friendly diet. Anyway, thank you for your very sensible post about people making themselves look big by calling out others. Maybe we should pity them if that's how they get their kicks.