Vaccines: Refusers versus aspirers

[PuzzledObserver]

I sometimes think I'm living in an alternate universe.

There are all these posts over social media, including mumsnet, about how vaccines are evil, they are all sent to kill us, DO YOUR RESEARCH you sheeple.

And then there are all the other posts about so relieved my Mum had her vaccine, it's not fair that I/my mum/my friend who is CEV hasn't got their vaccine yet and the EU are trying to shaft us.

It's a bit disconcerting, if I'm honest. But then I look at the takeup numbers, and it does seem that those who want the vaccine are the large majority.

So, which are you?

1. Had it/will have it when invited
2. No way, Jose
3. Mmmm.... still deliberating.

I'm a 1.

Tony Blair "In the end, vaccination will be your route to liberty"

Do people think this is benign or acceptable?

That is, frankly, chilling.

If Chris Whitty had said that vaccination was the way out of lockdown would you beieve it? Is it because Tony Blair said it that you think it is sinister?

1. Waiting for second dose

@RampantIvy

If Chris Whitty had said that vaccination was the way out of lockdown would you beieve it? Is it because Tony Blair said it that you think it is sinister?

There is a difference between "way out of lockdown" and "route to liberty".

Ah, OK.
And I can spell believe

@RampantIvy

If Chris Whitty had said that vaccination was the way out of lockdown would you beieve it? Is it because Tony Blair said it that you think it is sinister?

I'd be surprised if Whitty spoke in such definite terms. He knows the path forward is rife with uncertainties that make even the UK's vaccine efforts only good bet. I hope he wouldn't speak like that.

That Blair does suggests he's exploiting his ability to comment from the sidelines. It's easy to say something definite if you're not going to be held to it.

Blair is trying to influence things (for sure), but I wonder if he has an undue fondness for things that work like ID cards. He also has a track record for stealing the Government's thunder by revealing policies just ahead of them... so with regret, I'd say watch this space carefully.

Either way, I'd love for our liberties to start being restored at pace.

Didnt Blair once say, years and years ago, that he never uses a computer as he doesnt want anything on there? Something like that?

@rizzo23

3. I don't know why and can't explain it but something doesn't sit right with me about the way it's being pushed by the government. I've had all my other vaccines and so have my 2 dc but I won't be rushing for this one. Luckily I'm right down towards the bottom of the list so I have plenty of time to think about it and make an informed decision.

This with bells on

2
I'm young, healthy, blood type O negative.
I have nursed covid patients throughout the pandemic who did not, because of cognitive/psycho social reasons comply with social distancing and hygiene measures.
I have been coughed on, spat on and had close contact with the body fluids of covid +ve patients.
I did not contract Covid even when colleagues who had received their first dose did.

I don't, after my experiences to date consider my personal risk of contracting and therefore transmitting covid to be sufficiently great enough to warrant accepting the vaccine.

1. Of course. I'm not selfish

ChelseeDagger as are most of us. I don't believe for one second that you've nursed people on a covid ward. I don't know one doctor/nurse/care worker (and I know a lot) that isn't front of the queue begging for a vaccine, most are now on there second. I think you're full of shit and don't know what it's actually like to be nursing dying covid patients but you did you.

@Haydenjaydenokayden
Precisely why should it have any bearing on my career or decisions re the vaccine what you believe?
Most of my colleagues have had the vaccine, they believe it to have been in their best interests. I don't believe it to be in my personal best interests. Individual risk vs benefit, autonomous decisions have not gone out of the window simply because you may wish them to.

I find your reaction to my post very odd indeed.

And actually, nursing many gravely ill patients, some of whom have subsequently died and had a high viral load at the point of my contact with them, using PPE which the RCN have now come out and helpfully defined as unfit for purpose for months on end and STILL not catching covid...

Well it simply convinces me even further that there are genetic factors which predispose individuals to negative outcomes and conversely that there are protective genetic factors.

Most of the medics and nurses I know are of a similar opinion a year in to this mess.
The purported risk factors are a blunt instrument, it is far more nuanced than age/BMI/comorbidities.

Whilst we retain the right to exercise autonomous choice I intend to do precisely that.

@ChelseeDagger

And actually, nursing many gravely ill patients, some of whom have subsequently died and had a high viral load at the point of my contact with them, using PPE which the RCN have now come out and helpfully defined as unfit for purpose for months on end and STILL not catching covid...

Well it simply convinces me even further that there are genetic factors which predispose individuals to negative outcomes and conversely that there are protective genetic factors.

Most of the medics and nurses I know are of a similar opinion a year in to this mess.
The purported risk factors are a blunt instrument, it is far more nuanced than age/BMI/comorbidities.

Whilst we retain the right to exercise autonomous choice I intend to do precisely that.

Wasn't there something about certain blood groups being less susceptible? I don't remember what came of it, but it's interesting.

I read something about a theory that particular blood groups catch it more easily from particular blood groups to explain who catches it when. And who doesn't.

Yes, group A have the worst outcomes, blood group O and especially O rhesus negative appears to be a protective factor.
The peer reviewed studies which have so far been published have not, to my knowledge been published or even alluded to via the MSM.

The obfuscation of these findings is a little odd, given the understandable public interest in the pandemic. The purported risk factors haven't changed in a year which is curious indeed given the research which has been undertaken thus far.

I thought the blood group theory was about reactions to the vaccine. DH is A+ and had no reaction at all. I am O- and had a very slight headache.

www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2872LH

www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-4511

www.advisory.com/en/daily-briefing/2020/10/20/covid-blood-type

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.08.20058073v3

Individual risk factors, including those not widely reported but scientifically supported should absolutely form part of the decision making process re vaccines if we truly wish to 'follow the science.'

1 (vaccine next Saturday). Having had a boss (ex firefighter, very fit, only 60) on a ventilator last June, and a Dad in a care home where they lost many of his friends- it’s a no brainer.

This is what I meant:

Type O individuals are less likely to be infected, but are “universal donors” and more likely to spread infection.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1755436521000098

On the blood group findings; I sit at the privileged position of being O- (and have to donate this week, hence delaying my vaccine). Anecdotally, amongst my small cohort of friends & colleagues, there’s a pretty even spread of cases across all blood types. However, again anecdotally again, those with more severe symptoms were of non O groups.

I think the risk factors are incredibly nuanced, beyond the MSM touting fat & oldies being most at risk. It will be very interesting to see the results of multiple studies post widespread vaccination in years from now.

One of the reasons I'm now a 3, and no longer a 1, is that I'm a vegan, and passionate about animal rights. I was horrified when I learnt that the Oxford AZ vaccine is made by extracting a cold virus from chimpanzees and modifying it. Not to mention all the horrific animal testing.
I've heard that a new plant-based vaccine is being developed in Canada, called Medicago. If it gets the go ahead, and the UK gets some, then I'll be much more inclined to get vaccinated. At the moment, it's a very difficult moral dilemma for me. It's giving me sleepless nights to be honest. I care about people too.
Fortunately I'm quite far down the list, and also low risk, with a low risk lifestyle. I'll continue to be ultra careful with social distancing and mask wearing for as long as it takes too. For some of us, it's extremely complicated...

That’s interesting @WanderingFruitWonderer I hadn’t heard that it wasn’t Vegan-friendly, so had a look and Animal Aid seems to be recommending it for vegetarians and vegans and have stated none of the U.K.-approved vaccines contain animal products

www.animalaid.org.uk/the-issues/our-campaigns/animal-experiments/covid-19-vaccines-and-veganism/

@WanderingFruitWonderer

One of the reasons I'm now a 3, and no longer a 1, is that I'm a vegan, and passionate about animal rights. I was horrified when I learnt that the Oxford AZ vaccine is made by extracting a cold virus from chimpanzees and modifying it. Not to mention all the horrific animal testing. I've heard that a new plant-based vaccine is being developed in Canada, called Medicago. If it gets the go ahead, and the UK gets some, then I'll be much more inclined to get vaccinated. At the moment, it's a very difficult moral dilemma for me. It's giving me sleepless nights to be honest. I care about people too. Fortunately I'm quite far down the list, and also low risk, with a low risk lifestyle. I'll continue to be ultra careful with social distancing and mask wearing for as long as it takes too. For some of us, it's extremely complicated...

All medicines have been tested on animals at some point. I hope you never become an insulin dependent diabetic because it was developed using dogs and pigs. Like the covid vaccines they are now totally synthetic, but animals were used at the development stage.