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And so it begins - with pubs?

635 replies

MistressoftheDarkSide · 24/03/2021 22:36

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

Some rather good points raised in the article to be fair

OP posts:
Radio4Rocks · 25/03/2021 09:20

Not sure why it's such a problem for some people. You have to prove your age to drink in a pub - this isn't that different.

It would encourage me to go to one.

Same4Walls · 25/03/2021 09:23

Not sure why it's such a problem for some people. You have to prove your age to drink in a pub - this isn't that different.

You honestly cannot see how being vaccinated and being asked to prove your age are no different??

SidSparrow · 25/03/2021 09:25

@Unsure33

They could decimate the economy to bring in a new monetary system. Some people believe that this is a way to bring an end to the fiat money system.

SamW98 · 25/03/2021 09:28

@AcornAutumn

I'm not going to a venue that requires personal information.

I've had my first vaccine. But this is horrible dangerous territory.

100% agree. I've had my first vaccine but I won't ask anyone in my circle if they have, its their business

When the 'vaccine passport' was first mentioned people were ridiculed. called to take their tin foil hat off etc and yet many of what was predicted is now starting to happen

I think we are starting to go down a very dangerous authoritarian road. Look at Israel, they already have vaccine apartheid - not vaccinated are banned from shops, restaurants, gyms, swimming pools, bars etc. Can we honestly say that's not coming here?

SidSparrow · 25/03/2021 09:29

@FreeFallingFree
But what about the people who don't have smartphones? confused Which is 60% of the over 65s.

That's when they'll offer a handy microchip. Might not be any day soon, but get everyone used to scanning in and out, then in a few decades they'll offer the chip. Incremental steps. That way we gradually accept it.

HowAboutAH0tCupOfShutTheHellUp · 25/03/2021 09:32

@Dustyboots

I'm not getting vaccinated - was on the fence - but I'm not being cornered into it. And if the economy loses out because people like me are happier to miss out on going to pubs etc - then so be it.
great attitude Hmm
HarrietOh · 25/03/2021 09:32

But what about the people who work in these places? Are they just not going to employ people not vaccinated (which could be people under 40 depending upon when they reach the younger age groups)?

WhentheDealGoesDown · 25/03/2021 09:34

@Nerdygirl

This is just another coercion tactic. Tell yourself they are doing it for our own good as it’s not like a government have ever been wrong or lied before now is it. Or scientists for that matter.

Non vulnerable and younger people are assessing the vaccine on the balance of risk which is extremely low for covid and unknown for any effects of vaccines . They should not be demonised or limited to what they can access and where they should go

Exactly, I had the jab as I am 63 so at higher risk because of age, if I was 33 I would certainly be weighing up whether or not to have it. I do not agree with these passports at all.
LucilleTheVampireBat · 25/03/2021 09:38

Not sure why it's such a problem for some people. You have to prove your age to drink in a pub - this isn't that different

You can't see a difference between being asked to prove your age, and being asked to divulge personal medical information?

Belladonna12 · 25/03/2021 09:40

I think it's a good idea as long as they wait until everyone's had the opportunity to be vaccinated and there is an alternative proving that you have had a negative test they recently. Pregnant women can be exempt initially but eventually even they would have had the opportunity to be vaccinated. That only leaves those with severe allergies and again they would be given proof of exemption.

PussGirl · 25/03/2021 09:41

Expect the scammers have already been mocking up some vaccine passports at £200 a pop

RedToothBrush · 25/03/2021 09:42

I'm not too bothered about a vaccine passport as such for certain special situations to protect the most vulnerable. It is inevitable that you will need one for foreign travel. HOWEVER:

What bothers me is how the system works (an app for this?) and who this then passes the data on to (sale of your health information).

How you would deal with unvaccinated groups (children, those with particular medical issues who may have advice not to be vaccinated, your age, your nationality etc) and indirect discrimination on the basis of age, sex (pregnancy), disability or nationality.

How you go about preventing identity theft and ensuring that people are not lying.

The pub is not something I would consider a situation which should be considered a situation where you are protecting the most vulnerable like a care home (care home residents may lack capacity themselves and they have a human right to life which care home staff have a duty of care to uphold and carries greater responsiblity due to issues of it being their home and their other medical vulnerabilities which do not exist in a pub situation). It is reasonable to require all care home staff to be vaccinated for this reason.

Consent is based on the principle of free choice. Every obstacle you put in the way of normal life which coerces you be vaccinated even if you do not want to be, undermines the principle of consent. This is not ok.

I also have no idea how this would be policed. My suspicion is that regulars would generally get exemption from it all anyway. And that it would drive trade away. We go to the pub spontaneously. We don't make it a major organisational feat. Making us have tests whilst the rest of the older ones in the group can just turn up wouldn't work.

Also - how long do you think this scheme is going to set up? Its not something that can just be done instantly. And what happens if there is an autumn top up vaccination program? Do you only get in if you have the most up to date vaccine? If you don't, do you need a test anyway?

TBH I think the whole thing is unworkable in practice and its an idea being floated to look tough by politicians in the knowledge that it passes the responsibility to pub owners and off their shoulders. It also inflames the generational (and political) divide which conveniently just happens to fall right slap bang where the divide between group 9 and group 10 of the vaccination programme is. The Tory vote is significant in that it is mainly over 50....

Belladonna12 · 25/03/2021 09:42

@LucilleTheVampireBat

Not sure why it's such a problem for some people. You have to prove your age to drink in a pub - this isn't that different

You can't see a difference between being asked to prove your age, and being asked to divulge personal medical information?

I don't think whether or not your vaccinated would really count as "personal medical information ". If it is then so would divulging whether you are negative for Covid be "personal ". Anyway, some people would find being asked to divulge their age more personal than being asked to divulge whether they had been vaccinated. It's all relative.
WhentheDealGoesDown · 25/03/2021 09:43

@Radio4Rocks

Not sure why it's such a problem for some people. You have to prove your age to drink in a pub - this isn't that different.

It would encourage me to go to one.

I have never had to prove my age in a pub, I am too old to have ever had that pleasure, even when I was 15 or 16 many years ago and used to sneak in, that was in the good old days, long gone now so a fond memory.
babbaloushka · 25/03/2021 09:47

My daughter couldn't apply to University until she had proof of one of vaccines (Men C?). Don't se how it's different from that, it's for people's protection.

babbaloushka · 25/03/2021 09:48

@LucilleTheVampireBat

Not sure why it's such a problem for some people. You have to prove your age to drink in a pub - this isn't that different

You can't see a difference between being asked to prove your age, and being asked to divulge personal medical information?

Like you had to prove personal medical information in the form of the NHS test and trace, to show you were negative? It's even less intrusive than that...
lljkk · 25/03/2021 09:48

myGP ticket is owned by iPlato, on companies house, which has been around donkeys years, only 2 directors
(Peter) Tobias Alpsten (just iPlato)
Martin Degaris Rowden (mostly a gas & energy company exec)

2019 Interview with Alpsten. He backed Remain...

babbaloushka · 25/03/2021 09:50

@Dustyboots

I'm not getting vaccinated - was on the fence - but I'm not being cornered into it. And if the economy loses out because people like me are happier to miss out on going to pubs etc - then so be it.
You remind me of when I ask my teenager to clean her room, then she insists she was JUST about to but now won't because I've just 'pressured' her. Very juvenile attitude.
Crabbypaddy · 25/03/2021 09:51

A vaccine that doesn’t stop you getting it...can we all just remember this important fact ha

TheMarzipanDildo · 25/03/2021 09:52

Ffs I’m 21, no vaccine on the horizon for a while yet. I love pubs Sad

Radio4Rocks · 25/03/2021 09:56

@Same4Walls

Not sure why it's such a problem for some people. You have to prove your age to drink in a pub - this isn't that different.

You honestly cannot see how being vaccinated and being asked to prove your age are no different??

I honestly think being asked to prove something to a pub landlord is a reasonable request. Different but entirely reasonable.

Those who choose not to vaccinate to protect others will have to suck it up.

Same4Walls · 25/03/2021 09:57

@Crabbypaddy

A vaccine that doesn’t stop you getting it...can we all just remember this important fact ha
Agreed! It's quite concerning people think it magically makes everything better and you'll be 100% safe in a place where everyone else is vaccinated.
milveycrohn · 25/03/2021 09:57

Any pub that wants your business will not impose it.
However, there could be insurance implications. Some may well be afraid of being sued if it could be proved you subsequently caught the virus on their premises.
Maybe some will at first, then it will be relaxed, and maybe a disclaimer notice, on the lines of, anyone entering does so at their own risk, etc

Gladimnotcampinginthisweather · 25/03/2021 09:57

A family member is a Bouncer (door staff). It was bad enough asking people to wear masks, and he received plenty of abuse for that. People often turn up at pubs and clubs preloaded. I can see trouble ahead...

sirfredfredgeorge · 25/03/2021 09:58

I don't think whether or not your vaccinated would really count as "personal medical information"

Of course it fucking is, you're just thinking from your able bodied privileged high horse "I cannot be vaccinated" contains huge amounts sensitive personal data, you just presumably don't care about who'll discriminate against such.