Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

And so it begins - with pubs?

635 replies

MistressoftheDarkSide · 24/03/2021 22:36

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

Some rather good points raised in the article to be fair

OP posts:
Doyoumindfisithere · 28/03/2021 18:53

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

So you think that because it's a risk that others have dealt with, it doesn't feel like a new risk to someone *@Doyoumindfisithere*? Because it very much did for me. Doesn't matter that I've been a passenger in a car- I'd only ever been driven around by my parents who were good, experienced drivers. Being a new driver and knowing the risk to myself and others weighed heavily on my mind.

COVID is new but we know a lot about it compared to a year ago. Why is the average 20, 30, 35 year old going to be worried of that risk? They know they have more chance of dying in their car.

Yes, I think exactly that - the knowledge of others informs our emotional response to an action of situation.

The knowledge we have of covid is in its infancy. This informs our emotional response, as a society and as individuals.

Our knowledge of covid is still changing rapidly. Our knowledge of cars is barely changing at all now.

Doyoumindfisithere · 28/03/2021 18:53

action or situation, not of

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 28/03/2021 19:55

Because of course @Doyoumindfisithere, everyone thinks exactly as you do don't they.

I have numerous examples of how I've had to do adapt to a new and ever changing risk in my life. And I think it's quite clear now isn't it- what does a 20 yr old have to worry about when it comes to COVID? A 30 year old? In fact the vast majority of any age group will survive. Does mental health not matter to anyone anymore? Do people think it's worth being alive to live like this for years ? I don't.

EasterIssland · 31/03/2021 12:28

NEW 78% support for #VaccinePassport for travel - and a majority for going to the pub ...
twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1377205350835892224

Nerdygirl · 31/03/2021 13:36

Fgs, get a grip . A vaccine passport for a disease that will not affect 99% of people . People advocating this are advocating the government having more control over your body and your freedom. What next? No sex unless you can prove your health status, cut in universal support unless you prove you don’t drink or eat junk. Only 1 child allowed etc

Freedom is hard to come by and quick to lose, think carefully what you give away

SamW98 · 31/03/2021 14:09

@Nerdygirl

Fgs, get a grip . A vaccine passport for a disease that will not affect 99% of people . People advocating this are advocating the government having more control over your body and your freedom. What next? No sex unless you can prove your health status, cut in universal support unless you prove you don’t drink or eat junk. Only 1 child allowed etc

Freedom is hard to come by and quick to lose, think carefully what you give away

Absolutely agree. Travel I can accept as a short term measure - though I think once its here, it'll stay - but a vaccine passport to be allowed to have any sort of normal life - no effing way

This will be mandatory vaccines by stealth by making life almost impossible for anyone who doesn't have the jab

I'm not anti vac at all, I've had my first one, but I fear this is the start of a very slippery slope that we won't come back from

XenoBitch · 31/03/2021 14:13

@Nerdygirl

Fgs, get a grip . A vaccine passport for a disease that will not affect 99% of people . People advocating this are advocating the government having more control over your body and your freedom. What next? No sex unless you can prove your health status, cut in universal support unless you prove you don’t drink or eat junk. Only 1 child allowed etc

Freedom is hard to come by and quick to lose, think carefully what you give away

Totally agree. This is a slippery slope. And there will be plenty of people on MN absolutely gagging for such measures too.
BelleHathor · 31/03/2021 16:23

If you sample the right "selection" of people and ask the right questions you can get surveys to say whatever you like. Also aren't Ipsos Mori being paid by the government right now for certain projects, screams of conflict of interest: www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/major-home-testing-programme-coronavirus-will-track-levels-infection-community

beginningoftheend · 31/03/2021 16:50

[quote BelleHathor]If you sample the right "selection" of people and ask the right questions you can get surveys to say whatever you like. Also aren't Ipsos Mori being paid by the government right now for certain projects, screams of conflict of interest: www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/major-home-testing-programme-coronavirus-will-track-levels-infection-community[/quote]
You misrepresent polling and you misrepresent Ipsos Mori here I think.

I wouldn't discount this result - but I think people are currently ill-informed. The public mean 'should I have to show my vaccine card to go on holiday' whereas the government means 'should we have an app with ever-increasing access to medical records and wider infringments of privacy'.

BelleHathor · 31/03/2021 18:21

You misrepresent polling and you misrepresent Ipsos Mori here I think.
Maybe but polling is notoriously difficult. Things change based on sample size, demographic weighting, was the poll online, mobile phones or landlines. Is there a shy component a group that refuses to engage. I Agree with the following:
The public mean 'should I have to show my vaccine card to go on holiday' whereas the government means 'should we have an app with ever-increasing access to medical records and wider infringments of privacy'. What question was asked?

There was a pollster who got an election prediction right by asking "how do you think your neighbour will vote" as people were too shy to admit there would vote for a controversial candidate.

It's just interesting as from social media and online the split seems to be 50/50 for and against. Listening to LBC last week a lot of callers were against passports for anything but travel.

And so it begins - with pubs?
BelleHathor · 31/03/2021 18:31

NB: Apparently this poll was conducted using the Ipsos Mori KnowledgePanel. This will be a self selecting group who wish to engage with pollsters. Depending on how Ipsos weight it, it's very open to errors.

And so it begins - with pubs?
MercyBooth · 01/04/2021 01:11

I dont subscribe to The Times but here is a link anyway

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

Silkie Carlo
@silkiecarlo
·
32m
The Times has just broken news that Boris Johnson will make a high level announcement on COVID passes on Monday & further details to be worked out for June...Thumbs down

In short: they’re going for internal passports, always were, and we’re going to stop them

Suzi888 · 01/04/2021 01:17

[quote minniemoocher]@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Easy we have nationalised health here, your vaccination is recorded on your health record within 24 hours. They obviously need the computer software designed but should be simple to send a letter/card 3 weeks after your second dose confirming that you have had the vaccine and the date of the second dose. Your address is on your medical record so if you have recently moved make sure your dr knows (that has caught people trying to get vaccine appointments!)[/quote]
No one has been issued proof though, plus could be easily forged.

CrunchyCarrot · 01/04/2021 01:58

@MercyBooth

I dont subscribe to The Times but here is a link anyway

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

Silkie Carlo
@silkiecarlo
·
32m
The Times has just broken news that Boris Johnson will make a high level announcement on COVID passes on Monday & further details to be worked out for June...Thumbs down

In short: they’re going for internal passports, always were, and we’re going to stop them

Blech. I can't read the full thing either, but at least that article does say:

Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

I was worried that one wouldn't be able to access GPs, dentists, etc without a vaccine passport but it looks like it will not be needed, thank God. However having them at all is such a slippery slope, I don't like where this is heading.

MercyBooth · 01/04/2021 02:23

I hope he puts hairdressers on the list.

MercyBooth · 01/04/2021 02:37

Hes announcing it on Monday He fucked up Christmas. Now he wants to fuck up Easter.

BonnieDundee · 01/04/2021 05:59

You can’t coerce people into taking a vaccine they don’t want to take. And by making it a society where you either have the papers or you’re excluded is exactly that.

This. Coerced consent is not consent

MistressoftheDarkSide · 01/04/2021 07:21

Morning.

Haven't been able to read the Times article, but a high level announcement on Monday hmm?

I'm wondering if this Guardian article:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/31/fewer-quarter-covid-symptoms-request-test-uk-study

Is part of a gentle nudge and drip feed in the run up to that ni up to that to justify new / different measures. It doesn't talk about vaccine compliance, but the more back to basics bit of testing and self isolation.

This bit seems mildly contradictory though:

“The good news is that rates of adherence have been improving,” said James Rubin, an author on the paper and a professor of psychology of emerging health risks at King’s College London. But there is more work to be done, he said.

“We need to get more people to engage with the system, to recognise the symptoms, to get a test, and then to self-isolate and follow it through,” Rubin said. “We need to be getting people into the mindset of as soon as you’ve got one of these symptoms coming on, get a test. Don’t leave it a few days. Don’t wait until it resolves.

“What we don’t want is people who have got Covid out in the community, having contact with other people, spreading the infection. The more people with positive tests who self-isolate, the quicker we can get out of the restrictions we are currently in.”

I wonder if part of the drop off in testing / self-isolating even with symptoms is, as they say due to practicalities for those involved, alongside a possible feeling of security as the vaccine is being rolled out, and has been apparently proven so far to reduce transmission?

Also I wonder if in the run up to Easter they are hoping that all this stuff will reduce people stampeding to other parts of the country.

I'm in Bournemouth and we have this on our local rag's front page today:

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/19201370.covid-dorset-police-prepares-influx-visitors-easter-weekend/

Effectively the police say:

“The travel guidance throughout the pandemic, it is slightly vague,” he said.

AD
“The message from government whilst in this phase of the lockdown, it is still broadly to stay local.

“That is the advice, it’s very difficult to enforce because there are no regulations behind it.

“I am not sure the stay local message is going to be very strong.

“We all know, with a bit of good weather this weekend, we are going to have a big influx of visitors.

“We rely on visitors but respect the place and protect the place.

“We don’t want to be picking up 100 tonnes of rubbish, we don’t want Dorset & Wiltshire Fire and Rescue Service putting out forest fires, we don’t want to be towing away vehicles.

“All of these things we saw last summer that led to declaring a major incident.

“We want to get back to preventing crime, bringing offenders to justice, making everywhere safe, rather than fining people for having a barbecue or hugging their mum, we want to come away from that.

Mr Vaughan said the force was not prepared for the behaviour of people last summer but will have extra patrols this time around."

I don't pay much attention to Easter - not a "Christian" and no egg demanding children in the family, and hadn't realised it was this weekend.

I naively assumed it would come after the 12th April so that people would have more retail / leisure options open to prevent clustering. Which was the problem last summer, the easing of restrictions was before enough things were open to cater for the visitors, and which is why the beaches were so packed and the major incident declared.

On the other hand, if we had everything open, more people may have come, so I can see it's a bit of a no-win scenario. And it did seem that there was no spike after that whole kerfuffle. Our numbers didn't start going up until November / December.

Only time will tell I guess, but I think there's a link between all this that may suggest we're really not out of the woods yet, either virus wise or regulations wise.

Sorry for all the waffle, sleep deprived due to ongoing family stress!

OP posts:
twinklystar23 · 01/04/2021 11:20

So let's out the onus on the pubs, saves the government the responsibility of deciding on the vaccine passport, which imo the responsibility is theirs. As it collides with legal discrimination and human rights. If it's a "success" the government can step in to "help regulate it" of course it wasnt their intention to want to do this, but... then it would just be sensible to extend this to other leisure or cultural institutions.

I think this is a test, to float the idea. Without the BJ and crew having to float the idea, as many would protest, oh wait a minute... Hard to believe there is no hidden agenda here.Hmm

twinklystar23 · 01/04/2021 11:20

*put the onus

jessstan2 · 01/04/2021 11:48

@MercyBooth

Hes announcing it on Monday He fucked up Christmas. Now he wants to fuck up Easter.
How did he f* up Christmas? People were allowed to get together at Christmas if not a huge group.
Neron · 01/04/2021 12:33

How did he f up Christmas? People were allowed to get together at Christmas if not a huge group*
Not in tier 4 we weren't

beginningoftheend · 01/04/2021 12:42

I think the whole 'Christmas is saved' then 'Christmas is cancelled' was pretty frustrating, especially given all teh scientific advice was that Christmas mixing was a very bad idea given the state we were in.

Nappyvalley15 · 01/04/2021 15:26

I don't trust the polling either. The question in the snapshot didn't match the way it was reported. To what extent would usually mean some sort of scaled response not oppose or not oppose. They've lumped different degrees of response together. Also we can't see the earlier questions and how they might have coaxed respondents towards that response. Plus if it is a panel the client or the company may have some say in who is asked.

Frankly I have been sceptical about alot of polling as these companies are either heavily dependent on government or very close to government (e.g. yougov founded by the current vaccines minister).

But unless we seriously object and get some politicians to vote against this it will be forced on us. And it won't stop at CV. There is too much money to be made tracking our movements and selling that (along with linked health data) to pharmaceutical, tech and insurance companies. Welcome to the brave new world.

MercyBooth · 01/04/2021 16:36

@jessstan2 The psychological abuse the bullying and the gaslighting. The November lockdown was to enable people to see each other and have Christmas. And then come the 19th December there was the sensationalist press conference saying no, AFTER ppl had spent money on presents and food of course. People had also spent money on food for themselves and intended guests, So those intended guests wouldnt have had much in. So from the 19th onwards THEY had to go out and buy their own AS WELL. These tactics ensured optimum spend. It fucking well served them right when France reacted the way they did though. Though i felt sorry for the lorry drivers and their families. People do their pieces when they piss them about over holidays. So why the fuck is it okay to do it over Christmas. London and Essex went into tier 4 on the 19th December Im sick of being gaslighted over it.