And so it begins - with pubs?

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

Some rather good points raised in the article to be fair

@AcornAutumn

Xeno "I don't see how vaccine passports can replace T&T. You can still catch and spread Covid if you have had the vaccine."

My thinking is, they will still contact you to isolate because they'll have the info.

Wasn't T&T from pubs etc a failure? Not everyone has smartphones, and where you could leave details on paper, people were leaving false information.

Test and trace via pubs was a completely useless nonsense and vastly open to abuse - and so will this be. If it ever comes to pass at all.

Boris Johnson first brought up "immunity passports" a year ago and we're no nearer to them as far as I can see.

The Times this morning reporting the consideration of facial scanners for pubs. All in the name of protecting us from covid of course.

I always wondered what the government would do when the threat of covid lifted and people realised what a mess they had made of things. I thought a lot of them would resign. Perhaps their alternative is to create a biosecure state (with no right to protest) so we can't actually do anything without the government knowing.

For those who can't access the article it suggests pubs won't need you to show a passport to know if you are vaccinated. They simply scan your face and that information would be checked against a database of vaccinated people. Sounds lovely.
No possibility of mission creep or human rights abuses.

I’m astonished the Tories of all governments are debating this.

I wonder if they are trying to appeal to their covid terrified older electorate?

They have lost the plot if they think most people want this. And we won’t even be able to protest peacefully against it!!!

David Blunkett wanted bio metric scanners installed at airports, I remember seeing it on the news once years ago. I think that the cost put them off , then the idea was dropped.
Facial recognition is already in use. People standing two meters apart in queues or on pavements helps with this although how they get around mask wearing with this I'm not too sure . It is a slippery slope with our freedoms.

email to comment on the passport idea, deadline 11:45pm Monday night (29 March)

[email protected]

Recent interviews given by Gove, Zadawi etc are talking about a three-pronged immunity certificate thingy - so, for the sake of argument, you get a green light if you have had:

Vaccination within the last year OR
Confirmed infection within the last six months OR
A negative lateral flow test in the past 24 hours

NB - the year and six months are just guesses, to be confirmed/changed in response to emerging data.

Would that satisfy those who view vaccine passports as a way of coercing people into having the vaccine?

The downside I guess is the constant paying for lateral flow tests. But this system would deal with the problem of people who don’t have smart phones, because they could do the lateral flow test there and then.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/how-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-became-a-political-football-–-and-a-pr-disaster/ar-BB1f0fun?ocid=BingNewsSearch A very interesting read about the many issues

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-vaccine-passport-certification-jenrick-b1822891.html The Passport App wont be ready.

news.yahoo.com/covid-19-vaccines-stop-transmission-140000136.html Trials are to start around if the vaccine stops transmission

Facial recognition a possibility instead of the passport
thetimes.co.uk/article/face-scanning-tech-covid-vaccine-certificates-mcppsddfp

puzzled my issue with LT tests is they are inaccurate and quite obtrusive. I think a lot of people wouldn’t like doing one every time they entered a pub or go to work.

And then it’s a steady creep towards just getting a vaccine

I too have realised I’m a true libertarian who very much wants vaccines for those who want them but I really am terrified the way this is going.

It’s a very slippery slope to full on digital medical tracking and ID.

You can self report vaccine injuries/illnesses directly to VAERS: vaers.hhs.gov/
It's the only way they'll get a complete picture, particularly if medical professionals are reluctant to report them.

And who will pay for the tests? If it's down to business themselves, it will push up costs. Down to the individual?

What about the next bad flu season?

The thing with situations like this is that once a precedence(?) has been set like this it's very hard to go back.

At the moment we are facing the possibility of the Government having control over the nations health and bodies by putting restrictions on people. That is not freedom of choice.

What if the next suggestion is well we have found out that cutting your finger off helps to reduce XX would you be so willing to join those queues?

I can hear the titters of laughter behind the screens. But as the last year has shown, anything is possible in the name of CV.

Can anyone explain why if covid is on the list as a noticeable disease that the numbers recorded on a weekly basis on a government site are far lower than the numbers reported elsewhere. Only apparently apparently 23 reported. Covid numbers are on page 14

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/972007/NOIDS-weekly-report-week11-2021.pdf

A negative test 24 hours ago just shows at the time of the test you were probably negative, similar to other tests.

And what is to stop me, the unvaccinated, standing/sitting outside the pub and interact with friends and other patrons and get round restrictions this way? Outside areas to then have smoking/none smoking areas? Or just a ban on smoking in public?

The downside I guess is the constant paying for lateral flow tests. But this system would deal with the problem of people who don’t have smart phones, because they could do the lateral flow test there and then.

Why would people that haven't got a appropriate mobile phone have to do tests if they want to go out

@Thegentleman

Rapidly going into a dark dark place and a lot support it strangely. The pub freedom pass "if" rolled out would then be slowly added as a condition for other areas such as gyms etc. Then when fully rolled out it could have other strings attached for your freedom pass to work. For example you might then also need other medical treatments such as the flu jab to keep your freedom pass activated. They could even add things on such as paying council tax arrears, council parking fines, child maintenance payments etc. Don't pay them and your freedom pass will be put on hold until sorted. Few years ago this would have seemed far fetched it's clear it's not anymore. Effectively you can be barred from many areas for for not conforming :(

Totally agree. Once we have a vaccine passport system, it's only a matter of time before other things are added to it.

[quote Nerdygirl]Can anyone explain why if covid is on the list as a noticeable disease that the numbers recorded on a weekly basis on a government site are far lower than the numbers reported elsewhere. Only apparently apparently 23 reported. Covid numbers are on page 14

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/972007/NOIDS-weekly-report-week11-2021.pdf[/quote]
I have no idea.

Reading the figures why aren't we all vaccinated against TB (2982)?
What forced government intervention should we impose to reduce those food poisoning figures? (3018)?

Exactly @canigooutyet

I thought perhaps this wasn’t everything reported but then I read this

“ Background
All laboratories in England performing a primary diagnostic role must notify PHE of specified causative agents (organisms), in accordance the Health Protection (Notification) Regulations 2010. SARS-COV-2 is the notifiable causative agent for COVID-19. All registered medical practitioners in England must notify the proper officer of the relevant local authority or the local PHE health protection team of specified infectious diseases, in accordance with the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 and the Health Protection (Notification) Regulations 2010. All proper officers must disclose the entire notification to PHE. COVID-19 is a notifiable infectious disease”

And isn't Long Covid just basically what we always called recovery period?
Look at meningitis for example. A person can be left with a life long learning disability, brain damage and more. Yet it's not referred to as long... Many illnesses can have a long term impact on our bodies.

@MRSGGG

Am I the only one that finds it a bit tragic that people are desperately missing pubs?

Oh how dare people want to socialise again after being shut away for months on end

Its not about getting hammered, its about the opportunity to be in a social setting again with a handful of friends.
And its about the livelihoods of the publicans who have done all they can to keep their heads above water in these times

Locals are the hub and heart of the local community and a place where people can meet with others - sometimes the only chance they get to have a face to face conversation

Not quite sure why you would find that 'tragic'

@canigooutyet

And who will pay for the tests? If it's down to business themselves, it will push up costs. Down to the individual?

What about the next bad flu season?

The thing with situations like this is that once a precedence(?) has been set like this it's very hard to go back.

At the moment we are facing the possibility of the Government having control over the nations health and bodies by putting restrictions on people. That is not freedom of choice.

What if the next suggestion is well we have found out that cutting your finger off helps to reduce XX would you be so willing to join those queues?

I can hear the titters of laughter behind the screens. But as the last year has shown, anything is possible in the name of CV.

100% agree. I can deal with the vaccine passports for travel. I was one of those who was caught in the PCR test chaos in early Dec and lost my holiday (and my money) due to a company being unable to get results back in time. So hence my reluctance to have to be tested in and out

But it is the slippery slope that worries me. Why should we have to be controlled just to want to meet a few friends? And will this be spread to restaurants, theatres, gyms, swimming pools etc - just look at Israel for how its a them and us situation already. Even vaccinated only beaches FGS

Once this starts to happen, there will never be a way back

And add in facial recognition into the fold. Very, very slippery slope.

And isn't Long Covid just basically what we always called recovery period?

No, because people aren't simply 'recovering', they have ongoing serious health problems.

Look at meningitis for example. A person can be left with a life long learning disability, brain damage and more. Yet it's not referred to as long... Many illnesses can have a long term impact on our bodies.

Yes they do, and until the 'long Covid' phrase was coined, it was basically just tough if you were left with any longer-term effects for which doctors had little idea how to fix. And if you were unlucky you'd be diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I have a feeling that the Long Covid sufferers will eventually find themselves in the CFS bucket.