Telegraph is reporting vaccine to be compulsory for care home workers

[bathsh3ba]

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/22/care-home-staff-face-compulsory-covid-vaccination/

I feel quite uncomfortable with the idea of making any vaccine compulsory....

Thoughts?

@Dragongirl10

To all those waffling about civil liberties...... Do you really want your elderly, frail and vulnerable gran/grandad/mum/dad being cared for, by people who could easily pass on a disease, which will possibly cause your family member a lonely horrible death ? (and is easily avoided)

I cannot see how any normal person would want that, so please explain why you would...

If people really cared that much about it, then maybe they should actually look after them themselves?

A bit too much work though and it's so inconvenient when you want to go to Greece for a couple of weeks.

I'm generally in favour of vaccination and would support compulsory vaccination for state schools (unless certified by a doctor).

My concern here is sex discrimination, as far as I know it's still not advised to have the covid vaccines if pregnant or TTC. Given what we know about what that can mean for women's careers, I don't think women should be expected to disclose TTC in particular to employers.

[quote ilovebagpuss]@bumbleymummy yes people still need the vaccine as immunity waxes and wanes. We want to get to the point where you have a years immunity provided by the annual vaccine or top up.
I had Covid in April and by October my immunity had waned so I got it again lucky me.
Now I have been vaccinated So although I could catch it again I don’t have to worry that I will get a serious case and die.[/quote]
Studies have shown that immunity after natural infection lasts 6-8+ For the majority of people and is expected to last longer. We know more about immunity after infection that we do about immunity after vaccination at the moment. So if someone can provide proof of immunity why should they need to be vaccinated?

Care work has always been seen as an option for those who have no experience or qualifications. It gets pushed onto women who have not worked for years for childcare reasons... you can change a nappy, right? You should be fine to to wipe the arse of an elderly man who is combative, get spat on, hit. All for bugger all wage.

It is hard work and carers are underpaid and abused. Staff turnover is high and there is never a shortage of vacancies. Many people in care don't work in it because they care... it is because there is no other choice. Now they risk losing their job because they wont take a vaccine for whatever reason. Maybe whatever fears they have about it should be addressed instead of handing them their P45.

Where does this end? Would jobseekers have their benefits stopped for not having the vaccine, because not having it would close off a lot of employment opportunities?

This is not so much a slippery slope, but a well lubed ramp down into the abyss.

@whymewhyme

I work in a care home, we haven't had one outbreak! I have declined it on the grounds I am of child bearing age and trying to conceive ect, this is not a good enough of a reason not to have it accourding to my manager, my job us under threat and I am being treated as a outcast. I know I have a duty of care ect but our home for the last 12 month hasn't had one case, staff or residents. Surely I should be able to chose what goes into my body? Obviously not. It's a terrible feeling to be pushed into somthing i don't want.

Could you have an antibody test? If you can show that you’re immune how can they argue that you’re a risk? Not all vaccinated people are immune.

I'm going to preface this by saying I've gladly had my first jab, awaiting my second (due around now, no date yet)
But really I feel I need to answer some of the points here because some of them are way off base.

I worked in care for a fair few years, not once was I asked to have, nor offered a vaccine of any sort, flu, hep b, nothing. I enquired about it more than once and was told each time that care workers didn't need to be vaccinated, but my employer, or me could pay for it. Employers didn't want to pay for it, I couldn't pay for it. So I just carried on being a danger to the residents (and at risk myself) and no one really cared tbh. Certainly not enough to get outraged like they are about this.
Suddenly I'm being offered it left right and centre, employers are tripping over themselves to get their staff vaccinated, willing to pay and the NHS are offering it for free. Nurses are practically chasing you around the building with a syringe!
Shame it took a global pandemic and a government that shifted hundreds of people out of hospital into care homes without testing, wiping out care home populations to make anyone give a stuff.

All this talk about 'health care professionals' and the expectations of vaccinations, well, care assistants aren't health care professionals. Apparently. They're classed as unskilled workers, worthy of low pay and conditions (the minimum set by the government) and now suddenly they're health care professionals with a duty.
FWIW I do feel like we do have a duty to protect our residents against this, or anything else, but until recently the powers that be and care providers didn't agree because it cost money. This decision makes them look good, it's not for any other reason.

I've been told (as have many others) that a cold, or stomach bug isn't a good enough reason to be off, I'm not paid if I'm off. I can't afford to be ill. Those things can kill the people I work with. If this were not just a knee jerk reaction to the situation right now, why haven't those things been tackled before?

But here we are, after years of this going on, having care workers vilified, again.

Honestly, we really are seen as the lowest of the low aren't we?

Unless there is a medical reason why someone can't have the jab, I think it should be compulsory for everyone.

@Notthemessiah complete agree with all of your points. The middle classes outsourcing the sharp end again.

I respect someone's decision to not have a vaccine. BUT it's an employer's duty to protect employees, and their residents. And health and safety law stated that an employee must reasonably protect themselves too. I think a Covid vaccine falls into this category, but it's not yet been tested so who knows.

I'm fine with vaccines being compulsory going forward as I have to have Hep B. but it would require a variation in contract to implement a compulsory vaccine which could be contentious.

Terms and conditions of my contract were hep b, TB, and had to take a HIV test.

@Ihadthelastlaugh

Unless there is a medical reason why someone can't have the jab, I think it should be compulsory for everyone.

How would that be enforced? No other vaccination has been compulsory for everyone.

It's one of those things that will become mandatory regardless of whether it becomes law or not, as no care home will want to employ people who refuse to get vaccinated.

It's just common sense and for the benefit of everyone in the long run.

It's mandatory in US schools and they are looking at similar in front facing jobs. Good idea imo. Duty of care to others

What about those that can't have it due to allergies etc, will they be dismissed?
And what about visitors will they need to prove they've had it, or is it just the workers and not the people that pay the care homes oodles of money who it is mandatory for?

I think everyone in care jobs should.definitely have to have the vaccine unless.they medically are.unable to have it. I would not want any of my relatives looked after by.someone who had not had the vaccine and could potentially pass it on.

It's mandatory in US schools and they are looking at similar in front facing jobs

It completely varies by state, it's not all states.

Not uncomfortable with it at all. Fine, if they don’t want the vaccine don’t have it, but find a different job that doesn’t expose them to the most vulnerable of dying from this disease.

you care yourselves for those elderly relatives that you prefer to stick in homes, outsourcing the 'caring' to some exploited minimum wage worker with no alternatives (and then complaining about it when it turns out the care isn't very good, as if that will somehow salve your consciences).

My grandmother told us that if she ever got dementia she should be put in a home and not looked after at home, she had worked in the care sector for years.

I'm hardly middle class, I live on a council estate and my income is mostly from benefits (I have a small pension).

How would that be enforced? No other vaccination has been compulsory for everyone.

Have a look at how small pox was eliminated, polio could have gone the same way with compulsory vaccination.

I approve of it. And it should be extended to NHS staff too (who come into contact with vulnerable people).

Someone’s right to refuse a vaccine should not trump someone’s right to life.

A friend lives in a care home due to a brain injury, staff who choose not to be vaccinated will no longer be rota’d onto shifts unless they provide proof from a medical professional that they are unable to have the vaccine.

Vaccines have been compulsory in areas (including healthcare) for a long time, if you choose to work in care you know you need certain vaccines, so you know that being anti-vax means it isn’t a suitable career for you.

@bathsh3ba

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/22/care-home-staff-face-compulsory-covid-vaccination/

I feel quite uncomfortable with the idea of making any vaccine compulsory....

Thoughts?

What a ridiculous, sensationalist post.

The vaccine isn't compulsory for anyone - they are free to seek profession elsewhere if they feel that their requirements of their job title are beyond them.

@Mistlewoeandwhine

Someone’s right to refuse a vaccine should not trump someone’s right to life.

Does it work the other way around? Genuine question and not being goady, but should the residents have to have it too, even if they don't want it, to protect the other residents? My training in rights and choices says that wouldn't be acceptable. Medical professionals visiting? Undertakers? Tradespeople? Social workers? Family and friends?

@SimonJT

A friend lives in a care home due to a brain injury, staff who choose not to be vaccinated will no longer be rota’d onto shifts unless they provide proof from a medical professional that they are unable to have the vaccine.

Vaccines have been compulsory in areas (including healthcare) for a long time, if you choose to work in care you know you need certain vaccines, so you know that being anti-vax means it isn’t a suitable career for you.

As my last post said, it was darned near impossible to get a flu vax before all this without paying for it as a care worker. So no, it's certainly never been compulsory in care, medicine yes, care no. It's never been a condition of employment for care workers until now for most places, unless specialist. I was exposed to MRSA and they wouldn't even test me for it, I could (and all other care workers there) could have been spreading that around. Same with C-diff.

It probably should have been, but it cost money, so it wasn't. If you chose to work in care, then you had little or no expectation of having a vaccine for anything.

@bathsh3ba

In the comments on the Telegraph article various people were saying they work in health care and vaccines are not compulsory. What is the legislation that makes it compulsory and for what jobs?

I think I'm mainly concerned because it's yet another U turn - both Johnson and Hancock have previously said vaccines won't be compulsory. And their own analysis suggests it could lead to many leaving the care industry.

I suppose if it was only for certain roles and there was an option to be redeployed to a different role it wouldn't be so bad.

Perhaps it’s because they are starting to realise or at least drip the information to the public that we will never be rid of covid and the risk to the elderly is still extremely high particularly with any mutations that may compromise the vaccine efforts.

If I had an elderly relative in a home I would be reassured they were being cared for by people who theoretically should be safe.

Also let us not forget that most residents in care homes have been vaccinated so they could potentially be asymptomatic carriers and pass on the virus to the staff.