Telegraph is reporting vaccine to be compulsory for care home workers

[bathsh3ba]

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/22/care-home-staff-face-compulsory-covid-vaccination/

I feel quite uncomfortable with the idea of making any vaccine compulsory....

Thoughts?

The Hep B vaccine has been around for decades, and one usually only requires one course in a lifetime.

The Covid vaccines on the other hand are brand new; no safety track record, and in the case of Pfizer and Moderna are experimental gene therapies.

It is also very likely that annual boosters or different vaccines to address different Cov-19 mutations/variants will be required every year or so.

Hardly the same thing as ONE well-tried vaccine ONCE in your lifetime.

I agree; it's a slippery slope, and I don't think it augurs well for civil liberties and personal freedom.

@BorisJohnsonsleftnipple exactly. Nobody has to work in care home. Sure, the staff should be paid more but that's a separate issue.

@CrunchyCarrot

I don't like the idea of making any vaccine compulsory either. Where will that end? Surely then they'd have to make flu jabs compulsory, and pneumonia?

Slippery slope. And not a good one.

Agree, thin end of a wedge.

Good. It’s obvious that we should protect the most vulnerable and this is a good way to do it. If it puts people off being carers we could, say, improve their terms and conditions to attract more people.

@CrunchyCarrot

I don't like the idea of making any vaccine compulsory either. Where will that end? Surely then they'd have to make flu jabs compulsory, and pneumonia?

Slippery slope. And not a good one.

^This

I think they should be vaccinated or they are a risk to the patients that are paying them to care for them. Plenty of jobs have requirements you have to meet before being employed. I don't see this as an issue

Also, will people have to be vaccinated if they’re already immune after recovering from infection?

"And their own analysis suggests it could lead to many leaving the care industry."

We are facing a tsunami of unemployment right now. I'm happy to call their bluff.

@Kokeshi123

"And their own analysis suggests it could lead to many leaving the care industry."

We are facing a tsunami of unemployment right now. I'm happy to call their bluff.

I’m really uncomfortable with a ‘my poverty but not my will consents’ sort of scenario.

I very much support this. All sorts of roles have all sorts of conditions (including vaccination) of employment so this is just a add to the mix.

When I worked in the NHS I had to have a Hep vax, and because I didn't have a heaf scar, although I definitely had it done in school, I had to have my BCG.
Flu vaccination was by choice.
If I worked in a care home I'd want every vaccination possible.

Why would a care worker leave their job rather than get a vaccination that helps protect the people they care for? (Assuming they are eligible)

This is nothing new. Vaccines have been compulsory in many areas of life, from certain employment to travel to certain countries. It’s hardly a first.

And if you don’t wish it or can’t have it, then care is not the career for you. There will be other jobs where it is not required. This is not about the care worker, but about protecting the vulnerable.

Good one of our staff has refused the vaccine gone home to visit her relatives overseas. Comes back expecting to work the next day (can’t afford to isolate unpaid) obviously is told to go home and isolate and tests positive.
Could be a new variant she’s bought back could be a standard one but fact is she would have wandered back into a home full of vulnerable residents (yes most have had one vaccine). Some people are just not interested they don’t take it seriously still.
If we lose the 10 staff out of our 180 that have refused to have it it won’t be a loss.
That sounds harsh but it’s true and I’m not talking about those that can’t have it.

This is a business decision at the end of day. Families looking at care homes for their loved ones are going to choose the one which requires staff to be vaccinated, over one which won't guarantee that.

This is separate from any government decision about making vaccines mandatory.

Vaccinations are a way of training your immune system. Saying that this is a slippery slope is like saying that it's a slippery slope to make children go to school or to demand that bus drivers have a driving licence.

Like someone mentioned up thread, there are already mandatory vaccines for healthcare. Not nursing homes but as a student nurse I've had to have the MMR and Hep b. I have evidence of my BCG or I would have had that too. If I refused, I can't go out on placement and if I don't go out, I don't qualify. I want to be a nurse. Those are the conditions.

I can't get worked up about this to be honest. I've seen what covid did first hand in the nursing home I work in. It was devastating. It's to protect the most vulnerable.

How will the vulnerable be protected when a lot of staff leave and care homes are short staffed even more than usual 🤔
The only people to benefit will be Lawyers. There will be legal challenges as there should be as this is a violation of bodily autonomy.

@bumbleymummy yes people still need the vaccine as immunity waxes and wanes. We want to get to the point where you have a years immunity provided by the annual vaccine or top up.
I had Covid in April and by October my immunity had waned so I got it again lucky me.
Now I have been vaccinated So although I could catch it again I don’t have to worry that I will get a serious case and die.

The thing is, like it or not. With the ban on visitors to care homes. And the massive out breaks there is no way round the fact it was staff bringing in and infecting the patients in many instances. Not all, but many. Yes, some were due to hospital visits, others due to some visitors coming in, but the huge huge infection rate in care homes indicates there were massive lapses and staff were infecting the patients. As such, making vaccines madatory is the only way to go to protect the vulnerable.

It's not a compulsory vaccination, it's a vaccination as a condition of employment. Which seems entirely reasonable to me.

I understand people worry it’s a slippery slope, but some vaccines eg Hep B are compulsory already, so it isn’t a new concept and I think it’s necessary in this case.

I do think we have to keep an eye on all of this, but some of it is essential. There will be other jobs too, some travel, and possibly entry to some locations.

I love to know what people think, who talk about civil liberties being removed. What do you think their 5 year plan is? To what end, what is the outcome by slowly removing our civil liberties?

Boris and his gang arn't sitting in a darkened room plotting. There are many doctors, scientists and other people involved in this. If there was some underlying plot, I'm sure one of these people would reveal it movie style.

I do get what you're saying. I sometimes think 'what the fuck is happening', but I realise that a world dominating virus is actually a very real threat that the human race face, that needs to be mitigated, and is likely to be the scenario we are facing here.

@BelleHathor

How will the vulnerable be protected when a lot of staff leave and care homes are short staffed even more than usual 🤔 The only people to benefit will be Lawyers. There will be legal challenges as there should be as this is a violation of bodily autonomy.

Honestly people will just get used to it, it’s nothing new.

Actually this is an almost unprecedented change to the law, if it goes through.
It affects working class woman, often ethnic minorities, and them having agency over their bodies removed at state behest.

Medical procedures should never be coerced, and threatening someone with economic consequences is coercion.

I'm so deeply uncomfortable with where all of this is going.