What is happening in France (and Italy)

[Northernsoullover]

Does anyone know why their cases are soaring? I know that areas of France and Italy are back in lockdown but does that mean they had limited restrictions before? I have googled but wondered if there were any resident mumsnetters who might be able to shed some light?

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@AuldAlliance why are you so invested in british politics and who the leader is if you don't live in the uk[/quote]
Dunno about AuldAlliance but speaking personally this "expat' looks at the amount of NI and income tax they've paid to HMG over the last year, and thinks " darn right I'm invested in British politics and who the leader is".......

It is worrying as Ireland and the UK followed the last 2 waves, with all the DC back in school too.

Well, either the vaccines work, or they don't. If the figures are to be believed, it looks like they do. So we'll just have to wait a bit longer over here, before we can go on holiday.

[quote Thejoyfulstar]@StepOutOfLine Masks outdoors have been mandatory outside for a while though? Genuinely wonderful why you say they havent been?[/quote]
The translation from the DPCM states "where social distancing isn't possible"
Both in the latest one, and all preceding ones.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@AuldAlliance why are you so invested in british politics and who the leader is if you don't live in the uk[/quote]
Maybe because AA is British?
Maybe because AA has family in Britain?
Maybe because AA isn't so parochial and insular as to care only about what's happening in her town/country?
Maybe like me, AA lives abroad but pays a fuckton of taxes to the UK govt?

But, whatever AA thinks or says, why are YOU posting on a thread about Italy and France "if you don't live there"

@Thejoyfulstar

"in cui non è possibile l’isolamento continuativo da persone" that's the exact wording from the Draghi DPCM. I think iirc in the old ones it said "distanziamento" rather than "isolamento"

Obviously, there aren't many moments when you're outside alone, and obviously there are some twats who aren't going to respect the mask wearing but those are the terms. I've just worked with my local prefettura translating the whole fecking thing for expats.

@AuldAlliance why are you so invested in british politics and who the leader is if you don't live in the uk

Maybe because AA is British?
Maybe because AA has family in Britain?
Maybe because AA isn't so parochial and insular as to care only about what's happening in her town/country?
Maybe like me, AA lives abroad but pays a fuckton of taxes to the UK govt?

All of the above.

And because, as evidenced by the 2016 referendum in which I could not vote despite it having huge consequences for me, my children and all my family, how UK voters vote affects me directly.

And because watching the UK, under a PM whom a minority elected, implement its own economic, social and geopolitical decline is a painful experience.

n.b. Posters on this thread were musing about how/why the French voted for their current leader, although they don't live there.

@AuldAlliance why are you so invested in british politics and who the leader is if you don't live in the uk

Maybe because AA is British?
Maybe because AA has family in Britain?
Maybe because AA isn't so parochial and insular as to care only about what's happening in her town/country?
Maybe like me, AA lives abroad but pays a fuckton of taxes to the UK govt?

All of the above.

And because, as evidenced by the 2016 referendum in which I could not vote despite it having huge consequences for me, my children and all my family, how UK voters vote affects me directly.

And because watching the UK, under a PM whom a minority elected, implement its own economic, social and geopolitical decline is a painful experience.

n.b. Posters on this thread were musing about how/why the French voted for their current leader, although they don't live there.

I promise faithfully never to wonder, purely for the sake of keeping myself informed about how people in other countries view their governments due to having a job that requires me to do that, ever again.

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record--once an outbreak is seeded, lockdown alone will not get rid of the virus, because it will just continue to circulate around essential workplaces and people's homes.

China was able to get rid of COVID because in addition to lockdown they also did out-of-home quarantine, where infected people and even their contacts were forcibly quarantined in hotels and other empty facilities.

I personally think out-of-home quarantine is not so bad, but I've suggested it on here several times and people are overwhelmingly very very against it and probably would not comply anyway. And without OOH quarantine, no amount of lockdown alone will eliminate the virus from a country.

I still don't fancy being in China long term. If they ever want to open up their borders, they will have to accept some spread of the virus, but it's going to psychologically difficult to do that because so much time and energy has gone into elimination and because the population is now so frightened of the virus. And the extreme surveillance that the CCP has brought in to manage the situation will not be disbanded---it will continue to be used to crush political dissent and imprison dissenters and their families.

I used to live in Hong Kong. Now, Hong Kong will become just another part of "regular China" very soon--it's already well on the way. A glorious future under the care of the world's champion virus-crusher awaits! Who wouldn't be radiant with joy at such a prospect? Well.... Hong Kongers, mostly, from the looks of it. Those who can are trying to flee the place while they can, with a significant number planning to come over to the UK. COVID is not a nice virus, but I find myself thinking that "There are worse things than COVID in this world."

AuldAlliance.
That was not my first post on the thread. You clearly have not read the whole thread.

@StepOutOfLine thanks for that. So basically you do have to wear a mask outside if you can't be isolated from others? Which is most of the time though.

I definitely remember the police stopping people who were out walking with no masks on last year. They were walking around in groups, checking we all had our masks on as we walked down the street. The general consensus where I am is that it's the law. Obviously it's common sense to remove it when there is nobody around, but surely that goes without saying (like driving around on your own with your masks on 😊). Honestly curious as I don't normally read the decrees, just the paraphrases that our employers send us. I cant even remember what they said about masks but I do remember that we didn't have to wear them outside and then we did.

I personally think out-of-home quarantine is not so bad, but I've suggested it on here several times and people are overwhelmingly very very against it and probably would not comply anyway. And without OOH quarantine, no amount of lockdown alone will eliminate the virus from a country.

I wouldn't get tested if I thought I might have to leave my home against my will. Who would look after my cat if DH and I were forced to go into OOH quarantine?

@Thejoyfulstar Where I am the police and also shouty members of the public will stop you if you aren't wearing a mask, they will also comment aggressively if it's not pulled right up to the eyes. So easier to just wear one all the time and use hand gel demonstratively.

@PersimmonTree

I promise faithfully never to wonder, purely for the sake of keeping myself informed about how people in other countries view their governments due to having a job that requires me to do that, ever again.

A bit surprising then that you had no idea why Macron might have been elected.

@PersimmonTree yes! I once went for a walk at 6.30 am when the lockdown lifted last year. Nobody was around and I had forgotten my mask. The police drove past and definitely slowed way down as I walked along, probably trying to figure out what to do with me 😄

[quote Thejoyfulstar]@StepOutOfLine thanks for that. So basically you do have to wear a mask outside if you can't be isolated from others? Which is most of the time though.

I definitely remember the police stopping people who were out walking with no masks on last year. They were walking around in groups, checking we all had our masks on as we walked down the street. The general consensus where I am is that it's the law. Obviously it's common sense to remove it when there is nobody around, but surely that goes without saying (like driving around on your own with your masks on 😊). Honestly curious as I don't normally read the decrees, just the paraphrases that our employers send us. I cant even remember what they said about masks but I do remember that we didn't have to wear them outside and then we did.[/quote]
I know typical yes-but no-but wordy bureaucracy I suppose!

PersimmonTree
I am not the poster suggesting that no one should wonder about politics in other countries: I was pointing out that it is hypocritical to suggest that those not living in the UK should not be concerned with UK politics while other posters comment on/query politics elsewhere without being called out on it.

And I apologise for the tone of my response to you: I thought your blessings upon the souls of the French and rhetorical query about Macron's election - which was widely covered at the time, including in the UK media - were pretty condescending and replied in similar vein. Perhaps I misread your post.

yellowspanner
I did scroll through looking for your position on vaccines and didn't find your initial post. My apologies for that.

@yellowspanner

Of course the EU have failed in their vaccine roll out. First Macron says it's quasi ineffective. Then it's not suitable for over 65s Then they suspend it. Now it's not suitable for the under 55s. Which bit isn't a failure.

It's a bit soon to say it's a failure. It's very slow, certainly.

@StepOutOfLine che tipico 😄

@AuldAlliance. No problem. I expressed myself badly, probably due to the 3rd glass of from being stuck in the house on day 365 of lockdown.

What I meant with the unclear "god bless" remark was that I like the tendency of people (in this case French but really could be any nationality) to question and be sceptical about vaccines, governments etc. That's all. Questioning, before blindly accepting, to me is extremely important.

Those saying 'China did well' - well they did have advance notice before they bothered to let the rest of the world know what was going on, and they kindly let unknown numbers of people leave Wuhan to fly all around the world, BEFORE they locked down and sorted themselves out.

PersimmonTree
Glad we cleared that up.
I also had last night, the first this year...

Exactly @donewithitalltodayandxmas

As for the Daily Mail, Telegraph, etc., their bias and failings are obvious

So the likes of The Guardian are not biased? Yes, sure...

The Guardian have corrected several errors I pointed out to them over the years, and have published letters correcting others.
But their reporting on EU countries is woefully inaccurate, which was what I referred to when I mentioned broadsheets.

The press everywhere is inevitably biased to a degree - some papers more egregiously than others. Lies, though, are different from bias, and the DM, etc. peddle those with impunity.

Steps to introduce US-style "news" shows in the UK and current overt efforts to make the BBC more Tory-friendly are not encouraging.