To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

@mac12 Nope. No sudden sharp steep impact in this chart.

@mac12 @PrincessNutNuts I mean my kids can read that graph and see a sudden steep drop off. What is it with you?

@PrincessNutNuts

If you haven't seen it it's because you haven't been looking.

See here: twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1371763696586919938 for example.

Or pop into the Good News thread.

The vaccine-effect appears less dramatic than in Israel for two reasons. Firstly, our rollout is slower. Secondly, it's on a background of rapidly falling cases due to lockdown, which makes the impact of the vaccine harder to see. But it's real and it's there.

Actually I think my dog could read that graph and interpret a steep drop off.

@Blessex I think it's more of a lockdown success rather than vaccines. We will see the real effect when the lockdown ends in the summer.

@UtzAreBetterThanNuts ahh do you? You think?

GnomDePlume I'm in a position after years of investigations of lets wait and see how it progresses.. but with a family history like mine, if i get any problems i get rushed through to be wired up to the ECG machine. Will ring my GP when i get my letter with a lot of questions, then decide (i.e im putting it off) but the EU thing isnt helping!

@Blessex, I know it's difficult for you to understand. That's fine. I THINK you need to chill down a bit before you start insulting people you don't know on random forum

@UtzAreBetterThanNuts sigh

There are very strong views on all sides in this and over lockdowns too but as long as we are all kind to others whatever their views even if we regard anti lockdown or anti AZ covid Vaccine people are effectively increasing risk of death of others, we will be fine. The views are good on both sides and genuinely and kindly held.

The ONS figures also show that deaths involving Covid-19 in the over-80s have fallen dramatically, with a fall of 86% since the second-wave peak.

There’s lots of stats out today on big falls in older age groups. But you’d need comparisons with non vaccinated

Had vaccine yesterday at 4pm. Feel absolutely fine today. Arm a tiny bit sore but it's hurt worse when I'm done exercise. I'm so grateful to our wonderful scientists. If you don't want it just make way for those that do.

@mumsneedwine I remember your posts from other threads. So glad that you have had your vaccination!

[quote UtzAreBetterThanNuts]@Blessex I think it's more of a lockdown success rather than vaccines. We will see the real effect when the lockdown ends in the summer.[/quote]
I think so too. I don't see a vaccine effect. I see a lockdown effect. Much the same as the first lockdown effect.

This is a government who like to celebrate their successes.

If they had any concrete success to show us on the vaccine surely they would have?

@MarshaBradyo

The ONS figures also show that deaths involving Covid-19 in the over-80s have fallen dramatically, with a fall of 86% since the second-wave peak.

There’s lots of stats out today on big falls in older age groups. But you’d need comparisons with non vaccinated

And comparisons with those vaccinated on a timely two dose schedule.

[quote Motorina]@PrincessNutNuts

If you haven't seen it it's because you haven't been looking.

See here: twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1371763696586919938 for example.

Or pop into the Good News thread.

The vaccine-effect appears less dramatic than in Israel for two reasons. Firstly, our rollout is slower. Secondly, it's on a background of rapidly falling cases due to lockdown, which makes the impact of the vaccine harder to see. But it's real and it's there.[/quote]
Thank you for the link, but whilst I have the greatest of respects for the actuarial arts I see an estimate on vaccine versus no vaccine not hard data on how the gamble of vaccinating with a delayed second dose was a success and has been demonstrated to be better than vaccinating on a manufacturers recommended timely two dose schedule.

@MrsFezziwig 😁😁😁 didn't get it as a teacher of being in category 6 in the end. Being over 50 got me called quicker. So v grateful it's in my arm and starting to make those lovely little antibodies. Bored my year 10s to death today on how vaccines work.
Do not understand why you wouldn't have it. Painless and free.
And will get us out of this mess quicker, we can see it working in numbers already. Go science !

Miniscule compared to offering protection to double the number of vulnerable.

Deaths for those aged 75-79 also dropped 86% in the same period, compared with falls of 85% for those aged 70-74, 75% for those aged 65-69 and 72% for those aged 60-64.

Some more stats

PrincessNutNuts when you say ‘ gamble of vaccinating with a delayed second dose was a success and has been demonstrated to be better than vaccinating on a manufacturers recommended timely two dose schedule.’

Do you only mean Pfizer as isn’t AZ now recommending longer schedule

@Jellykat I get you. The immediate response to me is to pump me full of clexane just in case.

A number of people with my particular disorder have reported their INR going up after vaccine. Pure anecdata but possibly down to warfarin response being impacted by anything from diet to the price of fish and the state of the pound.

I only know plebs.

Noone has had much reaction to either vaccine. One who is a carer felt rough the next couple of days and she (and we armchair virologists) think she's had covid already.

Me too @RaindropsSplashRainbows. Out in the real world, my friends and family are falling over themselves to book their vaccinations!

Do you only mean Pfizer as isn’t AZ now recommending longer schedule

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-vindicated-over-brave-decision-to-delay-second-vaccine-dose-who-official-says-12211550

@PrincessNutNuts what you're seeing in that link is evidence that the vaccine schedule - the UK's vaccine schedule, 12 weeks and all - is working. It's not an estimate. It's the hard data showing that deaths are dropping proportionately faster in the cohorts that have had the vaccine.

Remember we're still fairly early into the roll out. It didn't start ramping up til mid/late Jan, and it takes 3-4 weeks for immunity to kick in, and then there's a lag in cases and deaths being reported. So there's only been a month of so of meaningful levels of immunity to observe. But the impact is absolutely showing up in the data.

See also www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2021/02/23/Vaccines-are-working-UK-unveils-real-world-data-from-vaccination-campaign and www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56153617 for a summary of PHE's findings on the impact of the UK's vaccine strategy.

That effect will get stronger and more obvious as the weeks roll on. But we can see it already. It is hugely encouraging.

@FourTeaFallOut @MarshaBradyo it’s not worth the energy. It’s draining.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9368883/Italy-France-fold-AstraZeneca-jabs.html

France and Italy thought better.
EU health minister says its a race against time.
Be interesting see if any more blocked export orders.
France threatens legal action.

Constant drama and indecision

[quote Motorina]@PrincessNutNuts what you're seeing in that link is evidence that the vaccine schedule - the UK's vaccine schedule, 12 weeks and all - is working. It's not an estimate. It's the hard data showing that deaths are dropping proportionately faster in the cohorts that have had the vaccine.

Remember we're still fairly early into the roll out. It didn't start ramping up til mid/late Jan, and it takes 3-4 weeks for immunity to kick in, and then there's a lag in cases and deaths being reported. So there's only been a month of so of meaningful levels of immunity to observe. But the impact is absolutely showing up in the data.

See also www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2021/02/23/Vaccines-are-working-UK-unveils-real-world-data-from-vaccination-campaign and www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56153617 for a summary of PHE's findings on the impact of the UK's vaccine strategy.

That effect will get stronger and more obvious as the weeks roll on. But we can see it already. It is hugely encouraging.[/quote]
Thank you for the links @Motorina I'll look into it.

But currently I think we won't see the full effect until some time after we really get going on the second doses next month.