To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

Investigations will be taking into consideration lots of aspects including sex, medical history, medications along with studying the contents of the batch of vaccine these people have received and the manufacture and production process.

They could save time by googling blood clots like some of the people on this thread. Seems to have given them all the answers.

I have always been very 'Pro-European' with lots of respect for our neighbors, but this is undermining that respect for sure.

What do you mean by the European bit of pro-European and which countries in Europe have you lost respect for, or are you just lumping them into one basket...

One of the problems with this debate and has been for many years with the other debate is that so many people in the UK see "Europe" as some homogenous mass where everybody jumps to the latest dictat from "Brussels" which in turn is represented by Mr Macron/ Madame Merkel...the reality really is anything but.

In the context of the AZ product some European countries are doing one thing (continuing), some European countries have called a halt....that's because each country runs it's own vaccination program, each country has it's own national MSM which perhaps isn't painting things the way the UK MSM does, and each countries politicians are responsible for and answerable to their own electorate....

I only cited the political agenda because it is governments that are suspending vaccinations, against the advice of their own scientists and medical bodies and the WHO. So its not science based, its perception based. Many EU countries are vaccine reluctant, the governments should have factored this in before taking an extreme step which will cost lives. Along with the lives already at risk because of the shambolic rollout. These actions will deter more people from getting any vaccine. I want the EU and the whole world to get vaccinated and try to find a way out of a dreadful situation and return to some normality. If we are lucky (due to our vaccination program) our third wave will be less damaging.

@BigBamboo

The cynic in me has been stirred.

The EU wants the block to remain intact at all costs. It is not in their interests for the UK to be fully vaccinated and start economic recovery before anyone else. If we do, other countries in the EU will question their membership. This could be the start of the break up of the EU or at the very least the final straw for some already teetering memberships.

They aren’t questioning the Pfizer jab which has equal deaths. Why is that?

The EU have 2 options. The start of its breakup or at the very least internal tensions, or, throwing their own people under a bus to save the EU.

It’s not actually that far fetched.

Typical Brexiteer rubbish. The EU is not on the verge of breaking up.

The surgery called me yesterday for my vaccine, I know it will be the AZ one, and I bit their hand off.

I also voted remain but the more I read about some of the petulant behaviour of some EU countries the more I think they can frig off too.

This is politically motivated.

@oldegg123 , No, the EMA doesn't have the authority to tell individual member states to continue with a vaccine programme they are perfectly entitled to pause. They just stated they were of the view that it was safe. However, their investigation into this issue is not concluded. And I am sure those countries that paused their vaccination programme did not do so lightly.

There will be an extraordinary meeting of the PRAC on the 18th. We may have a statement after that.

Many EU countries are vaccine reluctant, the governments should have factored this in before taking an extreme step which will cost lives.

I think the one I'm most familiar with did factor it in.

Finally the vaccine program got moving, despite the country having a fairly sceptical population (there's historical reason for that) plenty of people being vaccinated..

Then some of the MSM (which can generate scare stories just as well as the UK press) started to circulate scare stories on the back of events elsewhere.

I think the "halt" was called to allow the government to claim it was listening to domestic concerns with the hope of them being able to point later this week to the EMA report which I guess will allow them justify continuing the program "with renewed confidence" etc etc..and they'll get on with it PDQ..

If they hadn't done that I think there was a danger of the press feeding further AZ scepticism.

Again it’s a specific type of clot and presentation that has raised alarm. To be specific cerebral vein thrombosis (sinus vein thrombosis) in connection with a deficiency of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia). It’s rare enough that it shouldn’t have been seen as many times as it has been in the number of people given the vaccine in the same time period. This hasn’t been seen in the UK.

This! I question what news some of you in the UK have been seeing when you keep jabbering on about blood clots? Is your news not telling you about blood clots, low platelets and hemorrhaging all occurring together and how rare it is? So to have happened 4 times within 7-10 days of people receiving the vaccine from different batches warrants investigating.

When talking about deaths you have to remember that most of us EU countries were not giving the AZ vaccine to our elderly anyway.. They are all being given the pfizer or moderna. Those vaccination programmes are still on track with more of those vaccines than planned promised.

Being careful and weighing up the risks ie are young healthy people more likely to have serious complications from Covid or from the AZ vaccine is what are governments and health agencies are paid to do. Knowing that rather than ploughing on regardless governments are carefully considering things is a positive, knowledge is power.

So what happens in EU countries now? Say the EMA after their investigation say there is no connection to these deaths and the vaccine, carry on using AZ, Europeans will be to frightened to use it, they have no trust in it now, so what are they going to use?

I am okay with the EU suspending the vaccine if they wish, but I do feel for the millions of people that do not share the over cautious approach and are desperate for some protection, and may die without it.

I feel sorry for the hotels, resorts, restaurants, aviation and whole countries that depend on the vaccine rollout being a success. Yes the human cost is going to be terrible, but the economic one also has the potential to be even worse. What tourist will want to go to a country in a lockdown, or one with overwhelmed hospitals and sky high infection rates? No one is going to take that risk, even if they are desperate for a break, they will just choose safer, vaccinated destinations.

I would be beyond livid if my family died from covid because the EU could not get its act together, I wouldn't feel much better if my business collapsed for the same reason, and my country sunk into mass hardship and economic recession that could have been avoided!

It is utterly irresponsible given the evidence is so shaky, and you are far more likely to develop a blood clot with covid! That is the irony.

I would never accept that all this death and economic loss, and toll of suffering was worth it just to serve a 'unified' political agenda. It is madness.

I say this as someone with a home in Europe, and have spent the best part of twenty years living there in my younger days and have friends and family that live there. I am pretty devastated for them, and I feel like I don't even recognise the EU these days.

@Baileysforchristmas

So what happens in EU countries now? Say the EMA after their investigation say there is no connection to these deaths and the vaccine, carry on using AZ, Europeans will be to frightened to use it, they have no trust in it now, so what are they going to use?

Some countries that placed a order for moderna the most expensive vaccine have some moderna stock. I imagine they all relying on Johnson and Johnson one shot being available very soon. The only other ones maybe more readily available but not approved is Russian and Chinese vaccines. I do think the other 2 novavax and valneva will be available late autumn/winter.

@Baileysforchristmas

So what happens in EU countries now? Say the EMA after their investigation say there is no connection to these deaths and the vaccine, carry on using AZ, Europeans will be to frightened to use it, they have no trust in it now, so what are they going to use?

most vaccines administered in the EU are Pfizer and in addition to Moderna, the Janssen vaccine has recently been authorised. Many more alternatives, the European population will be vaccinated.

EMA director Emer Cooke is holding the briefing this is form the Guardian:

Asked about similar reports from the Pfizer and Moderna jab regarding blood clotting, Cooke says the EMA is looking at adverse events associated to all vaccines but that the current focus was on the AstraZeneca vaccine.

“It looks like there’s similar numbers coming in from across the world,” she says.

Cooke acknowledges that some specific batches have been suspected of being behind adverse health events, and that this is forms a plank of the EMA’s expert investigation.

Is your news not telling you about blood clots, low platelets and hemorrhaging all occurring together and how rare it is

No it isn’t.

In fairness I can see why. In the millions of doses the UK has administered this hasn’t been seen so they’re looking at it from the perspective that they don’t want to alarm the population unduly. The fact the UK hasn’t seen it does suggest that it’s not something uniformly wrong with the vaccine itself and another factor. The media are more than happy to oblige with the most basic of reporting i.e the references to clotting and comparisons with the Pfizer reported cases of clotting; oh and the added bonus of turning into a political drama that people should be taking personally as an insult to the bit of land they live on...

The PR machine is strong but slightly dim in this country.

@CrunchyCarrot

I think they are wise to investigate what's going on with the blood clotting issue. If people are having blood clots soon after having the vaccine, that's worthy of investigation. We may not like that, but it needs to be done. Just saying 'there's no connection' doesn't make it true.

I completely agree. And I had the AZ vaccine already so definitely not an anti-vax. I find it worrying how in the UK it is now taboo to question the vaccine side effects.

Before having my vaccine I was asked if I was currently on blood thinners. I said I wasn't at the moment but was in the past as I had a DVT... all well they said, you can have the AZ vaccine. Pardon me for feeling a bit worried and lied-to at the moment.

More blood clots complications after Pfizer vaccine, so what the hell is going on?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9366963/Coronavirus-Pfizers-Covid-vaccine-linked-blood-clots-AstraZenecas-UK.html

Haven’t rtft, 18 pages is a lot.
Someone must have already asked if these countries have also banned the contraceptive pill then?

Agree, they are balssing this up at every turn. Here they are facing a third wave and choosing that moment to suspend a vaccine. If it was a problem surely we would be seeing massive problems in the UK with the amount of people we have vaccinated.

They will be in time I know phizer managed to increase production.
Moderna has delivered less than they wanted.
Also janson which is 1 shot Johnson and Johnson unsure how quick they can produce and deliver the vast quantities they need.
Time is the problem here.
High rates infection some country's
Easter
Start of tourist season.

I question what news some of you in the UK have been seeing when you keep jabbering on about blood clots? Is your news not telling you about blood clots, low platelets and hemorrhaging all occurring together and how rare it is? So to have happened 4 times within 7-10 days of people receiving the vaccine from different batches warrants investigating.

I have read that it is rare but not "very rare". Considering that millions of people were vaccinated last week and it happened only four times, it is rare in vaccinated people too. The strangest thing about this is that it happened in one specific country.

I would be beyond livid if my family died from covid because the EU could not get its act together
I would be beyond livid if my family died from cerebral vein thrombosis because the UK refused to investigate seriously

It can work both ways.

Before having my vaccine I was asked if I was currently on blood thinners they ask this because they are going to put a needle in you, if you are in anti-coagulants you might bleed a bit and maybe need a plaster! You really don't need to worry.

My first reaction was cessation of AZ was politically motivated - and Brits can be forgiven for thinking that given recent events (Some European political leaders quite cynically denigrating AZ and querying its efficacy etc).

However after further reflection - and, I'll admit, after being persuaded by some of the comments from posters from other European countries, I am prepared to accept that I was probably wrong and am now more inclined to think stopping AZ is attributable to an over abundance of caution. Having read an article in the Times where even Macron has stressed that halting AZ is precautionary only and they hope to resume use of AZ soon, this doesn't seem to be about dissing the hood. Factor in also long standing vaccine scepticism in some countries such as France - Macron for instance might have felt that he had no choice

I also agree that sections of the UK press do seem to want to exaggerate and emphasise a particular narrative of the EU gunning for the UK, and that this might be a distraction shifting focus away from the downsides of Brexit (UK companies having to open warehouses in mainland Europe in attempt to overcome delays and disruptions to the free flow of trade for example)

On balance the heat needs to be taken out of this discussion and it probably doesn't help to continue to see things through the lens of EU v UK

Finally, I am having my jab on Saturday and I am relaxed that it is probably going to be AZ

An alternative view is that they are investigating batch issues.

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