Ireland halting the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine

[Kaylasmum49]

This just came up on my phone. I had the AZ vaccine 10 days ago. I'm concerned about the news of blood clotting issues.

@Luckystar1

I’m a bit cynical about this tbh. It’s interesting that the EU were slow to approve AZ, then countries wouldn’t use it for over 65s, then they are up in arms re supply, and now it’s suspended....

I feel like there’s something political in the background of all of this.

Yes, because these countries obviously just don't want to vaccinate their own citizens!

Having had my vaccine an hour ago I can confirm my doctor asked about blood thinners and then said very pointedly that that question was simply because if I were I would be given a plaster. Made sense and that’s exactly what happened with friend who is on blood thinners - plaster applied.

@pinkearedcow

Not really scary because the symptoms come on slowly and I am the type to soldier on. I actually owe my life twice over to previous medical intervention and 'trials' so I trust them. TIAs can happen to anyone, even young fit sports professionals get cancers and strokes, so while I can understand the concern, my gut feel is this is just coincidence.

They ask if you’re on blood thinners as they’re about to stick a needle in you.

This is a standard question that's asked before virtually any medical procedure. The reason is the possibility of rare complications that result in injury or emergency intervention. This could be someone fainting during the injection and hitting their head on a table or someone suffering a serious allergic reaction that might require intubation. Paramedics need to know if someone is taking blood thinners and be prepared to prevent them from losing too much blood.

Surely there would be huge issues reported in the UK if this was the case?
I had my first AZ last week. Like the majority of people who received it, it was without incident. I'd honestly be more worried if I wasn't receiving a vaccine at this stage.

@Gwenhwyfar

"All medicines have some potential side effects. If you read your packaging properly is a wonder that any of us ever take any kind of pill at all."

I've never taken a pill with a known side effect of blindness! A 30 year old nurse in Belgium has been permanently blinded after a blood clot. This was after having the AZ vaccine, but we do not know yet whether the vaccine caused the clot.
There's no need to panic, but it's normal to be concerned. It's not just ordinary people who are concerned but national health authorities.

Source for this please because I cannot find any mention of it anywhere.

Explain the probabilities to me then.
What is the likelihood of a 49 year old woman and a 34 year old woman suffering a blood clot in the same week, both in the same hospital, if neither had received the vaccine.

This wasn’t addressed to me, but I will try to explain what I think are the important points.

If you had carried out a whole load of vaccinations in one hospital, specifically just the one hospital and no others and this had occurred, the chances of it being coincidence would be very low indeed.

But if you carried out the same process in 3000 hospitals throughout Europe and this type of event only occurred in one of them and the rest had no problems, you might consider it was less likely the vaccine was at fault.

@icdtap

Do you have any idea how common these events are? No Are you medically trained? No Do you understand probabilities? Not really

But you think your two-pennyworth is important?

How rude are you?
Explain the probabilities to me then.
What is the likelihood of a 49 year old woman and a 34 year old woman suffering a blood clot in the same week, both in the same hospital, if neither had received the vaccine.

This is exactly the sort of thing someone was complaining about upthread - getting jumped on the minute you want to ask a question or discuss something that isn't "no problem with the vaccine".

But it's NOT the probability of two people suffering a blood clot in the same hospital.

It's the probability of two people suffering a blood clot in the same week in ANY setting. Unless you're going to argue that if it had happened elsewhere it wouldn't have mattered?

It's like buying a million lottery tickets - if you then win the jackpot with one ticket, were you insanely lucky? No, because the odds of winning the jackpot were divided by the number of tickets you bought.

There must be hundreds of thousands of locations where this double event COULD have occurred. The chance of it occurring in a defined place may be very low, but multiply those odds up this many times and it becomes likely.

And I don't jump on anyone who asks questions or invites discussion - just those who make ignorant claims.

I've never taken a pill with a known side effect of blindness! A 30 year old nurse in Belgium has been permanently blinded after a blood clot

Belgium hasn't suspended the AZ vaccine I don't think? Do you have a link to that case @Gwenhwyfar? I'm due to have AZ next week so would like to read up on these cases.

@User594022452

If it is nothing to do with the vaccine itself, why are they linking it to a specific batch?

It wasn't just one batch. From the three cases in Austria that were known in the media, two were one from batch and the third was a different one. That seemed like the catalyst in causing so many countries to halt their AZ program.

Thanks, I will see what more I can find about this then.

"Source for this please because I cannot find any mention of it anywhere."

Not widely reported in English it seems. Here is one source in FR, I can find more.
www.rtl.be/info/video/775052.aspx

@pinkearedcow Correct. Belgium has NOT suspended AZ. They do NOT know whether what happened to to the nurse was because of the vaccine or just after it. However, the case is being taken seriously.

@AnyOldPrion

Explain the probabilities to me then. What is the likelihood of a 49 year old woman and a 34 year old woman suffering a blood clot in the same week, both in the same hospital, if neither had received the vaccine.

This wasn’t addressed to me, but I will try to explain what I think are the important points.

If you had carried out a whole load of vaccinations in one hospital, specifically just the one hospital and no others and this had occurred, the chances of it being coincidence would be very low indeed.

But if you carried out the same process in 3000 hospitals throughout Europe and this type of event only occurred in one of them and the rest had no problems, you might consider it was less likely the vaccine was at fault.

Or that there could have been something wrong with that specific batch that was used in that hospital.

Rough google translate of the Belgium nurse case:

While a dozen European countries have already decided to suspend the AstraZeneca vaccine for further studies following suspected cases of thrombosis, Belgium has only heard of two such cases and has therefore reported that it was continuing to administer this vaccine. However, a highly suspect case has been taking place for ten days in Liège.

A nurse by profession, Catherine (30) presented to the Bierset vaccination center on March 1 to receive the first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine. A few hours later, she wakes up in the middle of the night and realizes that she can no longer see with her right eye. At the Sart Tilman University Hospital, doctors diagnosed her with a vascular thrombosis. "They reassure me that it is momentary and that my sight will return in the next few days," explains Catherine. But three days later, I still couldn't see. "She returns to the hospital and further examinations indicate an original thrombosis.

www.sudinfo.be/id380824/article/2021-03-13/une-thrombose-due-la-vaccination-liege-catherine-30-ans-perdu-son-oeil-droit

Yes, pinked, but we have updates now that her blindness in one eye is permanent.

@Gwenhwyfar

Yes, pinked, but we have updates now that her blindness in one eye is permanent.

Thank god for her that it wasn't both eyes. What a horrible thing to go through. It shows how dangerous clots can be. But to put it intp perspective there are many common medications that can cause blood clots but we don't hear of many cases of those clots causing blindness so it must be quite rare (I hope).

I'm a pro-vaxxer but I find it quite strange that cases of blood clots following AZ have popped up in virtually every European country but in the UK it's absolutely taboo to even speak about the possibility of a connection. Many posters here are like children with their fingers in their ears going LALALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU.

We are the testers for AZ, a living experiment. It’s terrifying.

Yes, I hope so too!
In the video I posted the reported explains that the number of blood clots has not been higher than the usual number in Belgium.

It's a rare day when there isn't a heart attack or stroke case at Disney World. It's because they have 58 million visitors a year, not because visiting Disney is a risk factor for CV events.

When millions of people get a vaccine, some will get sick regardless.

That's reassuring Gwen.

We are the testers for AZ, a living experiment. It’s terrifying

No we are not and no it isn't.

The issue that has caused concern in Ireland when they read the reports from Norway is that the clotting events were not the “usual clots in the leg or the lung” but much more serious clots such as in the brain and in vessels “where you wouldn’t expect to see it”.

These events were reported in Norway, not in Ireland.

@pinkearedcow

We are the testers for AZ, a living experiment. It’s terrifying

No we are not and no it isn't.

Makes you wonder how much longer that tired old disinformation will run, doesn't it?

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants, the EU took their time to approve vaccines because of the low confidence in vaccinations in general within the population. If you want to convince people to take it, you need to show you took your time following the proper procedure to examine the trial data and the vaccine itself and making the decision not in a rush. Unlike in the UK, a large population in several European countries don't trust vaccine and believe it's unnatural and does harm to people.

To say the European government want to discredit Astrazanica vaccine because of the Briexit is completely nonsense. You are talking with a limited view influenced by the media.

I started to think if this is to do with the vaccines are produced at different plants...To explain why we didn't hear any in the UK...

To say the European government want to discredit Astrazanica vaccine because of the Briexit is completely nonsense. You are talking with a limited view influenced by the media.

Agreed..I' know I'm making myself a hostage to fortune with the following but would now be an opportune time to point out - because just possibly it hasn't been mentioned in the UK MSM, , that the AZ product is still approved for use in France and that Mr Macron has not expressed any recent doubts about the vaccine....