Ireland halting the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine

[Kaylasmum49]

This just came up on my phone. I had the AZ vaccine 10 days ago. I'm concerned about the news of blood clotting issues.

FGS people saying the EU is trying to discredit the Astra-Zeneca vaccine - how ridiculous.

The gloating on here about how well the U.K. is doing in the vaccine rollout compared to the EU is sickening. The U.K. death rate is far, far higher than many European countries - thankfully I haven’t seen any gloating about that. Frankly there is nothing to gloat about whether you are in the U.K., theEU or anywhere else. Covid is awful wherever you are from, we in the U.K., EU and other developed countries are incredibly lucky in terms of the vaccine and should try and stop sniping at each other. It helps nobody.

FWIW my understanding is that the concern is in relation to a specific batch that was distributed to different countries hence the cautious approach in pausing the Astrazeneca vaccination programme while this is investigated.

Norway have been very cautious throughout the pandemic. Cases aren’t currently very high, so they have hit the pause button on the vaccine and alerted the health services to see whether any more cases come up.

I expect, if there are no further reports within the next few days/weeks, they will begin again and will have the personnel to catch up as the current limited rate of vaccination is due to lack of vaccines and not lack of the structural ability to give them.

Here is the official statement from the Norwegian Institute of public health

www.fhi.no/en/news/2021/norwegian-medicines-agency-notified-of-blood-clots-and-bleeding-in-younger-/

This is entirely consistent with their actions throughout the pandemic. I don’t believe it has anything to do with trying to discredit anyone.

All of this is why vaccination should not be compulsory. While letting a population with a high proportion of fuckwits make their own decisions is risky, a democracy can't work any other way.

Me, I'm glad I now have a lower risk of covid.

@Sallydally91

FGS people saying the EU is trying to discredit the Astra-Zeneca vaccine - how ridiculous.

The gloating on here about how well the U.K. is doing in the vaccine rollout compared to the EU is sickening. The U.K. death rate is far, far higher than many European countries - thankfully I haven’t seen any gloating about that. Frankly there is nothing to gloat about whether you are in the U.K., theEU or anywhere else. Covid is awful wherever you are from, we in the U.K., EU and other developed countries are incredibly lucky in terms of the vaccine and should try and stop sniping at each other. It helps nobody.

FWIW my understanding is that the concern is in relation to a specific batch that was distributed to different countries hence the cautious approach in pausing the Astrazeneca vaccination programme while this is investigated.

Yes.

@Luckystar1

I’m a bit cynical about this tbh. It’s interesting that the EU were slow to approve AZ, then countries wouldn’t use it for over 65s, then they are up in arms re supply, and now it’s suspended....

I feel like there’s something political in the background of all of this.

Couldn't agree more!!

@Kaylasmum49

I've read some of your previous threads/posts.

Please try not to worry. You did really well getting your vaccination. Millions of people have had the AZ vaccine now. IF there had been a direct link with clots it would have been picked up by now. Any of the, very few, people with clots are just as likely to have had a clot anyway. It's scarily common.

I think it's a political decision to suspend it & make a noisy dong & dance about anything the U.K. does well, post Brexit.

I can't remember, do you have an oximeter? They're well worth the money to keep an eye on your oxygen saturation.

I'm 52, diabetic, overweight with a family history of heart attacks & blood clots etc & I'm in the 'newly shielding' group. I couldn't wait to get the vaccine snd I'm not at all worried about it, Covid would be FAR FAR worse

Try not to stress 💐

@minchinfin

There is nothing in a vaccine that could potentially cause blood clots. It's the body's own immune response in response to that vaccine that could - probably around inflammation or damage to epithelial cells lining blood vessels maybe (like actually getting covid)

If it is nothing to do with the vaccine itself, why are they linking it to a specific batch?

We also need to stop with the 'UK has one of the worst death tolls'. That had always been contentious, mostly because of the way data is collected and that the pandemic is not yet over.

Looking at rates of change in deaths over the last couple of weeks will show a very different picture. Spain, Portugal and the UK rates are falling quite dramatically.

If we keep ignoring the wider data and concentrating on being 'the worst' we will be only too vulnerable to the headlines that question giving away/selling our excess vaccines as and when they become available. That has already started, I can't imagine it won't get worse.

If it is nothing to do with the vaccine itself, why are they linking it to a specific batch?

It wasn't just one batch. From the three cases in Austria that were known in the media, two were one from batch and the third was a different one. That seemed like the catalyst in causing so many countries to halt their AZ program.

@Silverandgoldsparkles

A country full of immune people will get us out of this - whether it’s immunity from the vaccine or from infection. We can hurry things along by vaccinating the groups most likely to end up in hospital because the lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed, not to prevent anyone from ever getting the virus.

Yes, if we closed all borders. We haven't. So every other strain of it is coming in and out of the UK every day.

Wrong.

This is why when you don't know anything about the subject, it's really dumb to post opinions on it.

Mutations reduce the value of previous immunity - REDUCE NOT REMOVE!
More immunity means lower R.

If you have herd immunity (doesn't need to be FULL immunity - a high % will do) to existing variants and a new one comes along, it will have a little penetration into that population, however it will spread quite slowly as many people will STILL be immune/non-infectious.

Authorities will need to monitor incoming travellers for the foreseeable future - anyone arriving will probably need to be tested and/or vaccinated, which massively reduces the risk of a new variant arriving, and if it does, local TTT will pick it up and isolate those affected just as they have with the SA variant - gives the nation months to formulate a new vaccine booster and get it distributed before that strain becomes a real threat.

Sallydally91 Sun 14-Mar-21 12:54:45
"FGS people saying the EU is trying to discredit the Astra-Zeneca vaccine - how ridiculous.

The gloating on here about how well the U.K. is doing in the vaccine rollout compared to the EU is sickening. The U.K. death rate is far, far higher than many European countries - thankfully I haven’t seen any gloating about that. Frankly there is nothing to gloat about whether you are in the U.K., theEU or anywhere else. Covid is awful wherever you are from, we in the U.K., EU and other developed countries are incredibly lucky in terms of the vaccine and should try and stop sniping at each other. It helps nobody.

FWIW my understanding is that the concern is in relation to a specific batch that was distributed to different countries hence the cautious approach in pausing the Astrazeneca vaccination programme while this is investigated."

This.

If it is nothing to do with the vaccine itself, why are they linking it to a specific batch?

Exactly. I'm sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that one woman died and another had a pulmonary embolism a few days after receiving the vaccine from the same batch in the same hospital at the ages of 49 and 34 (see my post above if interested). (And another woman in another hospital with a pulmonary embolism after vaccination with the same batch.
The Austrian government are trotting out "no evidence that it is linked", "blood clotting conditions occur at the same rate in the general population" etcetc. They don't want a panic of course. They have been battling against vaccine refusal all along.

Have just had my AZ vaccine. Relieved and thankful.
Support everyone.

Just listening to the public health doctors on RTÉ radio this morning. They are saying

1. it's a pause, due to data that came from Norway last night about a cluster of younger people with serious clotting issues.
2. it's a precaution until the Norway cases are investigated
3. they are stressing they aren't saying vaccine is unsafe. It is part of the process to build confidence by demonstrating they react to safety signals such as this. 4)could very well be a coincidence 5)they were just about to start roll out az to younger/vulnerable next week so taken in that context 6)MRNA still proceeding 7)Hoping to be able to lift the pause is around a week

Sorry, can't be arsed to read the whole thread. It's a big world, people get clots every day for a variety of reasons.

DH has been given the vaccine early as he suffers from blood clots but is not currently on blood thinners. Felt a bit manky for 24 hours but it certainly hasn't given him any and I doubt it would have been the chosen brand if that was a concern?

@CuriousaboutSamphire

We also need to stop with the 'UK has one of the worst death tolls'. That had always been contentious, mostly because of the way data is collected and that the pandemic is not yet over.

Looking at rates of change in deaths over the last couple of weeks will show a very different picture. Spain, Portugal and the UK rates are falling quite dramatically.

If we keep ignoring the wider data and concentrating on being 'the worst' we will be only too vulnerable to the headlines that question giving away/selling our excess vaccines as and when they become available. That has already started, I can't imagine it won't get worse.

We also need to stop with the 'UK has one of the worst death tolls'.

Why??

It's a fact - do you object to facts??

Wider data?
Like Germany has experienced 880 deaths per million, while in the UK it's 1841.

The UK has been lucky to have such a massive pharmaceutical sector so unlike almost everyone else, we've had no shortage of vaccines. The rollout has been good - first thing the UK has done right in the last 12 months, but it doesn't undo all the nonsense that went on before, AND the nonsense that I sense is yet to come.

@icdtap

If it is nothing to do with the vaccine itself, why are they linking it to a specific batch?

Exactly. I'm sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that one woman died and another had a pulmonary embolism a few days after receiving the vaccine from the same batch in the same hospital at the ages of 49 and 34 (see my post above if interested). (And another woman in another hospital with a pulmonary embolism after vaccination with the same batch.
The Austrian government are trotting out "no evidence that it is linked", "blood clotting conditions occur at the same rate in the general population" etcetc. They don't want a panic of course. They have been battling against vaccine refusal all along.

Do you have any idea how common these events are? No Are you medically trained? No Do you understand probabilities? Not really

But you think your two-pennyworth is important?

@pinkearedcow

Sorry to hear that - have you had a diagnosis?

Yes I have. It's a TIA, stroke. I can move and function but nowhere near 100%. I am off driving now for six months. I live remotely but thankfully I can work from home very easily and have support in many ways. No definite connection to the vaccine. To be honest I am glad to have had the vaccine because I want the world to return to normal as quick as we can.

@HeronLanyon

Have just had my AZ vaccine. Relieved and thankful. Support everyone.

That's great. It must be a huge relief. Looking forward to getting mine (of whatever kind) at some stage.

2) it's a precaution until the Norway cases are investigated

And the Austrian ones and the death in Italy.

DH has been given the vaccine early as he suffers from blood clots but is not currently on blood thinners. Felt a bit manky for 24 hours but it certainly hasn't given him any and I doubt it would have been the chosen brand if that was a concern?
I'm pleased DH is ok.
The issue has just arisen however, so after it has been investigated it could be that a different vaccine is recommended for those who suffer blood clots.
The issue has arisen in younger women (the cases I have seen reported at least).

The fact that your DH with his blood clotting issues has not been affected does not mean that there is an issue with the vaccine.
The fact that there have been a few cases of blood clotting and brain haemorrages in younger people also does not mean that there is an issue with the vaccine.
It has to be investigated further and it is good that some countries have stopped vaccinating with it.
Austria where 3 cases arose, has only stopped the batch in question. They are vaccinating 400 teachers in Vienna today with AZ from a different batch.

By the way, before anyone reads a headline and draws some conclusion and starts a panic thread, a woman died of a heart attack at the Vienna vaccination centre today. The press was making a big song and dance but then it turned out the poor woman had the heart attack while waiting to go in.

@Grimbelina

This might reassure you:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56357760

With so many millions of doses administered just in the UK, I think we would hear if there were a significant number of these events don't you?

Exactly.

If you'd read on you'd have seen my answer to why?

And I think you misunderstood were pharmaceutical companies are. The UK has a smaller output than Ireland!

@WhoWants2Know

When I got the AZ vaccine, the nurse first asked me if I was taking any medication for blood clotting. Is there a reason they would ask that if the vaccine isn't associated with clots?

They ask if you’re on blood thinners as they’re about to stick a needle in you.

That must have been really scary @PantherPantherus. Will they do any more investigation into whether the vaccine could have caused it or is just not possible to know one way or the other? I hope you get better soon.

"All medicines have some potential side effects. If you read your packaging properly is a wonder that any of us ever take any kind of pill at all."

I've never taken a pill with a known side effect of blindness! A 30 year old nurse in Belgium has been permanently blinded after a blood clot. This was after having the AZ vaccine, but we do not know yet whether the vaccine caused the clot.
There's no need to panic, but it's normal to be concerned. It's not just ordinary people who are concerned but national health authorities.

Do you have any idea how common these events are?
No
Are you medically trained?
No
Do you understand probabilities?
Not really

But you think your two-pennyworth is important?

How rude are you?
Explain the probabilities to me then.
What is the likelihood of a 49 year old woman and a 34 year old woman suffering a blood clot in the same week, both in the same hospital, if neither had received the vaccine.

This is exactly the sort of thing someone was complaining about upthread - getting jumped on the minute you want to ask a question or discuss something that isn't "no problem with the vaccine".