Ireland halting the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine

[Kaylasmum49]

This just came up on my phone. I had the AZ vaccine 10 days ago. I'm concerned about the news of blood clotting issues.

I think CuriousaboutSamphire is right about other European countries being far more suspicious of vaccines that the UK and that may be why those countries are trying to clearly demonstrate to their populations that they are being ultra cautious.

@pinkearedcow @CuriousaboutSamphire thank you I need to talk myself down a bit. I have health anxiety at the best of times .

@EasterIssland

France and Italy have also stopped waiting for the EMA report which is released tomorrow

They may as well just withdraw az from France too much damage has been done.. Italy best release 250k az to Australia that they blocked. Both countries will just have use the other 3 phizer moderna and soon j&just but risky as both countries have highest cibid infection in Europe right now and their helathcare may get overwhelmed bot to mention another damaged tourist season..

@Peppafrig

I feel sick to my stomach me and my DH had it on Saturday what about our kids. What do all these country’s see that we don’t .

I had the AZ jab on Saturday and I'm not even a tiny bit worried about it and I'm a worrier. I think it will be like all the other responses that the mostly European countries have had to it. First it was the UK giving the go ahead to the Pfizer vaccine - oh that's too quick, not enough research etc, etc. Then it was our approval of the AZ vaccine - oh that's too quick, not enough research etc, etc. Then when we changed the timescales for the 2 doses - that's not what we tested for, panic, panic.

In the first two cases Europe and other countries followed our lead, but not without delays which have seriously impacted their vaccination program. On the last point it seems that the research supports a longer period between doses and Europe has been debating extending their timescales too. I can't find any up to date info on what time periods are between doses in places like Germany now.

I will be absolutely amazed if there isn't a u-turn on this blood clot issue in the next few days or so. It's like the Eurovision song contest. Doesn't matter how good our song is, Europe will probably never vote for us again. It can't just be as simple as this vaccine produces blood clots, when the Pfizer one has a similar story. It sounds like political sour grapes to me.

@minchinfin

Is it spin to help them secure supplies of the next lot of vaccines to be approved maybe? So they can appear more in need over other countries because they "can't" use their stockpiles of AZ vaccine, that many other non European countries don't even have yet?

Ireland don't have stockpiles of any vaccines

@MissConductUS

I think some of that is a budget issue. It seems to me that in the US they encourage everyone to get the flu vaccine.

We do, and insurance is required to pay for it.

One thing to keep in mind about covid mutations is that they are considered most likely to happen in people who have weak immune systems, as it takes them longer to clear the virus. Not vaccinating children doesn't create a great mutation risk as they typically have very robust immune systems and clear it quickly.

And other low-risk people will fall into that category too.

The U.K. has been trying to increase the flu vaccine uptake for years.

I think alot of it will be political... knowing they have screwed up their vaccine programme...but now it makes them look like they were right to be cautious even if and when the ema say its all fine tomo afternoon.

"The U.K. has been trying to increase the flu vaccine uptake for years."

Apart from some workplaces, it's only offered to the old and vulnerable though. Not the same approach as in the US at all. But flu is not as big a problem for the population as a whole as Covid is obviously.

@Dwigvk

The fewer cases there are, the less the risk of mutations though. So just because there are going to still be hordes of unvaccinated children, at least for a while, that doesn't mean we might as well also have hordes of unvaccinated adults! If anything, that's an argument for wanting as few as possible unvaccinated adults.

But there won’t be ‘hordes’ of unvaccinated adults in the U.K. A large percentage of the population want to have the vaccine.

@Chatterbox1987

I think alot of it will be political... knowing they have screwed up their vaccine programme...but now it makes them look like they were right to be cautious even if and when the ema say its all fine tomo afternoon.

This doesn't make sense to me. If you have screwed up your vaccination programme, what you want to do is vaccinate as many people as possible as quickly as possible. I'm not cynical enough to think European politicians want to kill off their citizens. Belgium, which is VERY slow, has not banned Astra Zeneca despite concern over recent cases.

"But there won’t be ‘hordes’ of unvaccinated adults in the U.K. A large percentage of the population want to have the vaccine."

Two friends who believe 'it's exaggerated' have een vaccinated. When I saw that, I realised we're not likely to have many problems with Covid deniers and the like.
The bad side effects, and things like blood clots that may or may not be related, might put people off though.

Expect more pauses / delays...

@Circumlocutious

Expect more pauses / delays...

That's what makes this so daft. I hope More or Less do a podcast on this. I imagine that will be equally reassuring.

But there won’t be ‘hordes’ of unvaccinated adults in the U.K. A large percentage of the population want to have the vaccine.

I agree for some age groups, but that doesn't change the fact that your argument was that as there are going to be loads of unvaccinated kids, there's no point worrying about infections in unvaccinated adults, and that doesn't make sense. (It's the same logic fail that gets us into trouble when people think they might as well visit friends indoors as their kids are in school anyway.) If you want less of something, you want less of it, so it makes no sense to decide that as you've got lots of it in one place you might as well not care if it's high elsewhere.

I’m a vaccine cautious Jim.

None of these numbers actually worry me. Surely they are to be expected if you vaccinate millions of people?

I like this explanation below, from the guardian live feed. I'm just slightly baffled that so many european countries are taking this step. Surely it's a no brainer (to me anyway) that any risk however hypothetical is outweighed many times over by the benefits.

Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, professor of the public understanding of risk at Cambridge University, has backed AstraZeneca’s claim there is no evidence that the Oxford jab leads to an increased risk of a blood clot. Speaking on the World at One, he said:
I’ve looked at the AstraZeneca reports and they’ve said that 17m jabs across the EU and the UK [had been administered] and they’ve had about 15 cases of deep vein thrombosis and 22 cases of pulmonary embolism reported.
Doing some sums, deep vein thrombosis happens to one in 1,000 people per year of all ages.
So, out of those 17m jabs, we would expect at least 17,000 of those people to get a deep vein thrombosis some time in the year.
So that means that there will have been - and you can pretty well guarantee it - 350 people who have had an AstraZeneca jab then had a deep vein thrombosis in the week following that.
I think what’s surprising is that only 15 have been reported as a possible adverse effect.

All this is going to do is fuel anti-vaxers and be even harder for people in europe to be convinced to have it

But none of the fact checking, pausing, etc doesn't account for the different way that the exact same circumstances, nigh on identical results for Pfizer is not being raised as a possible cause.

Either both cause clotting or neither of them do, based on current data.

Given the numbers current data seems to suggest that neither of them do.

All this is going to do is fuel anti-vaxers and be even harder for people in europe to be convinced to have it

I know 🙁

The WHO briefing is quite to the point too.

Get on with it, we don't have much time left!

Germany has just suspended AstraZeneca as well.
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/15/germany-suspends-oxford-vaccine-over-blood-clot-fears

The good thing out of all this, the more data that is being shared in the media the better I actually feel, i’m very reassured about this vaccine, 17 million people with less than 50 people being very ill or dying is amazing 😊

It’s pathetic really. This is just political. Italy, France, Germany all struggling badly with Covid and they’re messing about like this.

I bet they’re citizens just want the vaccine.

Their citizens!

It's like the Eurovision song contest. Doesn't matter how good our song is, Europe will probably never vote for us again.

They never did before! Nul points. I don't know why we bother with it.