Ireland halting the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine

[Kaylasmum49]

This just came up on my phone. I had the AZ vaccine 10 days ago. I'm concerned about the news of blood clotting issues.

@Cookerhood Yes, I expect if it becomes an annual thing then people who live with vulnerable people will also be offered the coronavirus vaccine. A really high percentage of flu cases are asymptomatic too.

@CuriousaboutSamphire why don’t you clarify what it is that you disagree with me about then?

I have a gene that means my blood clots more than other people's. It's one of the reasons the doctor put me in group 6 - because there is strong evidence of a link between long covid and blood clots in the lungs. I had the AZ over 2 weeks ago. Naturally the news reports have made me concerned...but I wonder if these people who have had blood clots are clotting from having had covid previously rather than the vaccine. The risk of getting sick from Covid and potentailly developing clots from covid has been proven and this is much more real to me than the risk of getting from the jab. I think if you have had the jab already you really need to forget about it now. You had your's 10 days ago. You will be fine. And there will be more info about this before you are due to have your second jab.

@bumbleymummy mostly because you succeeded in frying my brain!

Start again, spell it out for me and I'll give it a whirl

I think you're more likely to get clots if you take the Pill than if you are vaccinated with the AZ vaccine.

My DH is due to be vaccinated this Saturday and it will be AZ due to storage at the venue near us. He will be furious if it gets suspended here in the next few days and even more furious if he then catches covid.

This really isn't funny, the countries that are suspending it should allow people to make their own minds up.

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@bumbleymummy mostly because you succeeded in frying my brain!

Start again, spell it out for me and I'll give it a whirl [/quote]
sorry! Not my intention.

Herd immunity can be achieved by a certain percentage of the population being immune - whether through vaccination or recovery from natural infection. People who decide not to have the vaccine are prepared to take the risk with the virus and gain immunity that way. They will still be contributing to herd immunity which will protect the vulnerable who can’t be vaccinated.

Arguments that people choosing not to have the vaccine are going to cause mutations do not make sense because there are millions of children who can’t be vaccinated and mutations can occur in them too. We are not going to eliminate the risk of mutation by vaccinating adults when there are millions of unvaccinated children in the U.K. and millions of unvaccinated people around the world. The virus is going to continue to mutate.

France has just suspended use of the AZ vaccine, but will evaluate after the European watchdog report which is supposed to be available tomorrow.

poppycat10 I'd be furious if it got suspended here too. I don't think it will as there's no evidence to back up suspending it. Mine's on Thursday and I'm desperate for it as I know I'd be at risk if I got covid.

"it should allow people to make their own minds up."

How would that work? Is there any country allowing people to choose which vaccine they get? You usually get the choice between a vaccine or no vaccine.

Thanks

Herd immunity can be achieved by a certain percentage of the population being immune - whether through vaccination or recovery from natural infection. People who decide not to have the vaccine are prepared to take the risk with the virus and gain immunity that way. They will still be contributing to herd immunity which will protect the vulnerable who can’t be vaccinated. I have no issue with that at all.

Arguments that people choosing not to have the vaccine are going to cause mutations do not make sense because there are millions of children who can’t be vaccinated and mutations can occur in them too. We are not going to eliminate the risk of mutation by vaccinating adults when there are millions of unvaccinated children in the U.K. and millions of unvaccinated people around the world. The virus is going to continue to mutate. And that bit is where we diverge a bit. That was what part of my list was for.

Currently kids are not being vaccinated because of what has gine before, standard practice etc. But further studies are being done, on kids under 16, so all of that might change. Just as understanding of just how much kids are a vector for transmission is changing!

Currently we are doing what is possible, fingers crossed for what isn't. Which is an aver changing picture. Who knows how diferent our undertsanding and approach will be in a year or three?

As for those around the world. Some countries be affceted far less, geography, climate, population density etc.

Covax is there to get vaccine where it is needed but cannot be afforded (plus Canada because they signed up for it!).

Mutations tend to be weaker than the parent virus. But some of this is new ground for allscientists involved. So we don't know yet. Can only do what we think is best, based on the best oinfrmation available.

So, in short, I don't think the numbers of unvaccinated peple will change policy. But changing policy will reduce the numbers of those that remain unvaccinated.

Eventually we will know whether or not an annual booster is needed for some/many!

This is a good "easy read" (for the non-scientific, like me!). www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56360646

France and Italy have also stopped waiting for the EMA report which is released tomorrow

"We don’t try to guilt the entire population into having the flu vaccine to try to create herd immunity to protect them though."

I think some of that is a budget issue. It seems to me that in the US they encourage everyone to get the flu vaccine.

"The argument that ‘mutations will happen if all adults aren’t vaccinated’ does not hold much water when there are millions of unvaccinated children where mutations can also happen. "

The aim is for children to be vaccinated as soon as that is safe surely?

Well I have had AZ today. The vaccination centre was very busy so at least this news isn't putting people off. I still cannot understand why AZ is getting the most attention for this when there are incidents of blood clots following the other vaccines too.

I feel sick to my stomach me and my DH had it on Saturday what about our kids. What do all these country’s see that we don’t .

I think some of that is a budget issue. It seems to me that in the US they encourage everyone to get the flu vaccine.

We do, and insurance is required to pay for it.

One thing to keep in mind about covid mutations is that they are considered most likely to happen in people who have weak immune systems, as it takes them longer to clear the virus. Not vaccinating children doesn't create a great mutation risk as they typically have very robust immune systems and clear it quickly.

@Dominica21

Blessex Your husband is considering voting far right because of a vaccine

And a Dutchman married to a British woman thinks both countries being out of the EU is going to be convenient for him? I don't think we have to set that much store by his opinion.

I still cannot understand why AZ is getting the most attention for this when there are incidents of blood clots following the other vaccines too

Politics?

@Peppafrig

I feel sick to my stomach me and my DH had it on Saturday what about our kids. What do all these country’s see that we don’t .

Nothing!

Remember that they mostly do not have the same vaccine programmes we do; most people across Europe are vaccine sceptics, the UK is not.

So we, people, goverment, medical science, in the UK are accustomed to vaccine programmes, familiar with the issues and more accepting of there being some reactions, some caused by the vaccine, the majority not.

We just don't have the same aversion or complete misunderstanding to the RR of a vaccine. By that I mean we measure the chances of a reaction to the vaccine with the outcome of the disease. Many vaccine sceptics compare it to their current healthy state and don't factor iin the disease.

That, as far as I can glean from all sorts of reports, is it!

I had mine on Saturday. Despite the side effects, I’m so glad l had it!!! I don’t believe 2/2 this shit. It’s just scaremongering.

I’ll be having my 2nd AZ as soon as l can!

Covid causes more bloody damage including blood clots.

@Gwenhwyfar

"it should allow people to make their own minds up."

How would that work? Is there any country allowing people to choose which vaccine they get? You usually get the choice between a vaccine or no vaccine.

Exactly. If they don't want the AZ vaccine they go to the back of the queue and rebook later. Then those who do want it, can get it.

It's not about giving people a choice over which vaccine, it's about saying take it or leave it.

"My uncle got the Pfizer, he’s elderly, obese and has diabetes. It makes total sense for him.

It doesn’t make much sense for younger people that do not live with elderly family or work with vulnerable populations."

If you think about your own individual risk, yes, but two things

1. We have a duty to everyone else too. We have to do this a and
2. It's in our own best interests too. We need a certain amount of herd immunity through vaccination to get out of lockdown and not go back into one so we cannot get our own lives back unless we take a vaccine.

@Peppafrig

I feel sick to my stomach me and my DH had it on Saturday what about our kids. What do all these country’s see that we don’t .

Peppa please try not to worry. There have been 15 events of DVT and 22 events of pulmonary embolism reported as of 8 March (out of 17million vaccines).That is a tiny amount and there is no proof yet that any of those events were caused by the vaccine. As things stand there is more risk of blood clots from things like flying or pregnancy or taking the pill.

I quite happily had the AZ vaccine today.

@CuriousaboutSamphire yes, in a years time things may be very different. We could be vaccinating children as well or we may only be vaccinating the most vulnerable groups, like for flu. Time will tell! People’s concerns about some adults deciding against the vaccine now are more short term though - they are worried that this is going to cause mutations and prevent us easing restrictions etc. As I said, that doesn’t really make sense given how many million unvaccinated children there are. We have vaccinated the people most likely to end up in hospital so when things reopen, even if we do have an increase in cases, we shouldn’t see the hospitals being overwhelmed.

The fewer cases there are, the less the risk of mutations though. So just because there are going to still be hordes of unvaccinated children, at least for a while, that doesn't mean we might as well also have hordes of unvaccinated adults! If anything, that's an argument for wanting as few as possible unvaccinated adults.