Ireland halting the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine

[Kaylasmum49]

This just came up on my phone. I had the AZ vaccine 10 days ago. I'm concerned about the news of blood clotting issues.

The EU are about to approve the Russian vaccine with factories being setup in Spain, Italy, France and Germany. It all seems a bit odd, at least we have a lot of data on AZ and Pfizer now to be able to see the risks, I would be far more wary of the Russian vaccine.

@Baileysforchristmas

The EU are about to approve the Russian vaccine with factories being setup in Spain, Italy, France and Germany. It all seems a bit odd, at least we have a lot of data on AZ and Pfizer now to be able to see the risks, I would be far more wary of the Russian vaccine.

What Sputnik? I thought they had said that was a PR stunt, didn't really exist?

I'll need some proof... ah ha!

www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/15/unthinkable-eu-considers-russias-sputnik-v-vaccine

God that's quite a depressing read!

@knittingaddict funny, I feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall telling you the same things over and over too. :) It seems a bit silly that people are worried about the risk of mutations in a small percentage of people who decide not to take the vaccine but have no problem with the millions of people in the U.K. and around the world that won’t be vaccinated eg children. Oh well!

Why am I foolish when I can see that, statistically, I am incredibly unlikely to become seriously ill/die from covid?

I had the flu vaccine for many years purely to protect others (sick children) as I was “incredibly unlikely to become

seriously ill/die” from it.

Obviously that makes me a fool in your eyes @bumbleymummy, because it’s all about you.

It seems a bit silly that people are worried about the risk of mutations in a small percentage of people who decide not to take the vaccine but have no problem with the millions of people in the U.K. and around the world that won’t be vaccinated eg children. You think that's logical, a Gotcha!, don't you?

Where shall we start?
Environmental factors?
Population factors?
Individual factors?

What herd immunity actually is?
What pandemic actually is?
How viruses mutate?
Why we bother with vaccinations at all?

Current knowledge about young children and covid?
What will happen as they get older?
What is happening now as Pfixer, AstraZenica have permission for futher testing

And on and on!

The same shit virologists, epidemiologists have been working on for over a century!

Not at all. I wouldn’t call you a fool for making a different decision to me. If you’re working with or spending time with vulnerable people then having the flu vaccine may reduce the likelihood of you passing flu on to them. We don’t try to guilt the entire population into having the flu vaccine to try to create herd immunity to protect them though.

Actually Sputnik is increasingly being accepted in Europe now. In Austria people openly comment under newspaper articles that they'd rather have Sputnik over AZ. It's widely used in Hungary, Serbia and various neighbouring countries where many people from Germany & Austria have friends and family. I can easily see Sputnik replacing AZ after the irretrievable PR damage through the media.

@bumbleymummy

And it could mutate into something stronger, as is what appears to be happening

Yes it may end up an annual jab, but think of all those other diseases now irradiated because of worldwide vaccine, or the fact that measles etc is now on the increase as people don’t vaccinate their kids

It’s not all about you

@CuriousaboutSamphire I don’t think it’s a ‘gotcha’ at all. Please feel free to expand on your points. I know quite a bit about some of them already but I’m interested to hear your opinions.

[quote Chloemol]@bumbleymummy

And it could mutate into something stronger, as is what appears to be happening

Yes it may end up an annual jab, but think of all those other diseases now irradiated because of worldwide vaccine, or the fact that measles etc is now on the increase as people don’t vaccinate their kids

It’s not all about you[/quote]
The only human disease to have been eradicated with vaccination is smallpox.

And again (head->wall) infection also provides immunity so even if the less at risk people decide not to have the vaccine and contract covid, they are still contributing to herd immunity - including the millions who can’t currently be vaccinated eg children (where the virus can also mutate).

@User594022452

Actually Sputnik is increasingly being accepted in Europe now. In Austria people openly comment under newspaper articles that they'd rather have Sputnik over AZ. It's widely used in Hungary, Serbia and various neighbouring countries where many people from Germany & Austria have friends and family. I can easily see Sputnik replacing AZ after the irretrievable PR damage through the media.

There was considerable concern over that, iirc. Russia wasn't using it, but was selling it!

It is weird, but inevitable, I am guessing. UvdL and others may end up with blood on their hands!

[quote bumbleymummy]@CuriousaboutSamphire I don’t think it’s a ‘gotcha’ at all. Please feel free to expand on your points. I know quite a bit about some of them already but I’m interested to hear your opinions.[/quote]
Well, you are the one who keeps bringing it up. It seems to be central to your idea about vaccines not being worthwhile!

Why not do the heavy lifting yourself and explain why?

No? OK!

I haven’t said vaccines aren’t worthwhile at all . I’ve said several times that it makes sense to vaccinate the more vulnerable groups who are more likely to end up in hospital. I just don’t agree with some others here that everyone needs to be vaccinated every year for us to be able to lift restrictions and move on. The argument that ‘mutations will happen if all adults aren’t vaccinated’ does not hold much water when there are millions of unvaccinated children where mutations can also happen. The virus isn’t going to distinguish between someone who chose not to have the vaccine and someone who can’t have it.

@bumbleymummy

Not at all. I wouldn’t call you a fool for making a different decision to me. If you’re working with or spending time with vulnerable people then having the flu vaccine may reduce the likelihood of you passing flu on to them. We don’t try to guilt the entire population into having the flu vaccine to try to create herd immunity to protect them though.

We haven't near-destroyed our entire economy and closed all schools just for flu, have we? You really this pandemic is equivalent to flu?

I’ve said several times that it makes sense to vaccinate the more vulnerable groups who are more likely to end up in hospital. Yes, and questioned whether you would have it because...

I just don’t agree with some others here that everyone needs to be vaccinated every year for us to be able to lift restrictions and move on. Who said that? If it was posted here I missed it

The argument that ‘mutations will happen if all adults aren’t vaccinated’ does not hold much water when there are millions of unvaccinated children where mutations can also happen. That bit! My list applies to that bit. In the changing milieu of what is known about the vaccine, new research being done etc etc.

The virus isn’t going to distinguish between someone who chose not to have the vaccine and someone who can’t have it. Yes! And...? Why even say that? I don't get it.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I’ve said several times that it makes sense to vaccinate the more vulnerable groups who are more likely to end up in hospital. Yes, and questioned whether you would have it because...

I just don’t agree with some others here that everyone needs to be vaccinated every year for us to be able to lift restrictions and move on. Who said that? If it was posted here I missed it

The argument that ‘mutations will happen if all adults aren’t vaccinated’ does not hold much water when there are millions of unvaccinated children where mutations can also happen. That bit! My list applies to that bit. In the changing milieu of what is known about the vaccine, new research being done etc etc.

The virus isn’t going to distinguish between someone who chose not to have the vaccine and someone who can’t have it. Yes! And...? Why even say that? I don't get it.

I’m really not sure what you’re trying to say here. It sounds like you’re agreeing with me. If you don’t think that everyone needs to be vaccinated to lift restrictions and you recognise that mutations can just as easily happen in millions of unvaccinated children then why are you arguing with me about whether people should be able to decide against having the vaccine?

You really this pandemic is equivalent to flu?

No. But flu can be deadly to people who can’t have the flu vaccine too. We don’t vaccinate everyone to protect them.

Bloody hell. That last was so convoluted I almost thought I had agreed

@User594022452

Actually Sputnik is increasingly being accepted in Europe now. In Austria people openly comment under newspaper articles that they'd rather have Sputnik over AZ. It's widely used in Hungary, Serbia and various neighbouring countries where many people from Germany & Austria have friends and family. I can easily see Sputnik replacing AZ after the irretrievable PR damage through the media.

hope if that's the case they end up donating the thousands of unused vaccines to Covax so other countries can use them.

@bumbleymummy

You really this pandemic is equivalent to flu?

No. But flu can be deadly to people who can’t have the flu vaccine too. We don’t vaccinate everyone to protect them.

No but those who live with vulnerable people are on the flu vaccine list (our family are, to protect DH). Flu isn't as infectious and also you tend to be infectious when you get symtpoms, so people tend to know they have it. Look how flu has dropped this year - the measures were enough to virtually elimivnate flu, but not Covid. Having said that, I think people need to remember that it is considered acceptable for a certain number of people to die of flu every year. If we are seriously going to vaccinate every year for Covid, maybe we should incoude flu as well.

I do fear some European countries are playing politics with vaccines sadly

Yes, I think this is what Ireland is doing. I'm annoyed as I live in NI.

hope if that's the case they end up donating the thousands of unused vaccines to Covax so other countries can use them. I said that over the weekend. Responses included

• I was not making any sense
• I was making a political point about the Irish

And the really sad, and not at all sneery one: someone will make politics out of a "sub standard vaccine" being given to 3rd world countries because it wasn't good enough for the, richer/whiter countries.

So, when all of the AZ shit is finally over, there will STILL be a block to its being used globally, because UvdL, Macron et al decided to play politics rather than act to save lives.

Germany has paused using AZ now

The American FDA hasn't approved the AZ vaccine because of the problems with the data in the Phase III trial, but I think they're doing more testing in the US. With the J&J vaccine now approved in the US there will be less pressure for additional vaccines to get EUA. Novavax is anticipating FDA EUA in May as well, so that will be another supplier.

Reportedly the Russians themselves are very reluctant to get Sputnik, so most of the production is being exported.