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Original poster

Why do care home staff/NHS have to be vaccinated?

133 replies

MissMarpleTheMurderer · 03/03/2021 07:44

We don't insist on other vaccinations (ie you can work on a children's ward without having the measles jab and there have been several small outbreaks recently (v small but measels is much more contagious and has a much worse outcome for children than covid does.)

The local care home has just announced that it will employ vaccinated staff only, however it already struggles to recruit and retain staff and the longest member, who does such a great job looking after my mam has just handed her resignation in as she doesn't want the jab. The care home have said she has to have it because some members of the home have chosen not to have the jab, but she says its unfair they get a choice but she doesn't, (and feels that she doesn't need the jab because she already has had covid and was fine)

Now I get that vaccinations are not 100% but the data is looking good, I feel uncomfortable forcing people to be vaccinated especially when the risk of the illness is so small to them (we don't vaccinate against Hep A or Chickenpox because the risk to people is not cost effective for the NHS, however each year people/children die from it)

Do you support forced vaccination, and if you do how do you plug the gap in social care staffing? (Especially as unlike the debate on R4, the majority of staff do not see it as their vocation, it's a job that pays the bills and a pretty crappy job/wage at that and my mam's care home is now going to have even less staff)

OP posts:
lljkk · 03/03/2021 07:50

A lot of CH staff enjoy the job, it is a 2nd family situation. I disagree with you there. But most people choose other work & the industry shortage of labour is terrible - true.

I agree there is no logic to what's happening with compulsory jab plans, beyond "we're in a panic". Vaccine requirements are setting precedents about bodily autonomy that I don't like, too.

ohwaitthatwasme · 03/03/2021 07:50

It's not forced vaccination though, is it? It's simply a choice and without it some things may be limited. And I absolutely think people working in care for vulnerable people should be having it.

You say your mum is leaving her job because she 'doesn't want it' - why is that? Is there any sort of medical reason for it or is it simply as you say 'she doesn't want it'?

jasjas1973 · 03/03/2021 07:52

Agree, we should all have freedom of choice in regard to medical treatment.
Flu is also a killer of the elderly, CH's nor the NHS, force employees to be vaccinated.

Bazoo23 · 03/03/2021 07:53

It's not forced, it's a requirement for that particular employment.
Employees are free to leave if they wish.
Can't stand this hysteria about "forced vaccination".

Ethelswith · 03/03/2021 07:54

NHS does insist on vaccinations - during training, and then for certain other roles.

OK - it's not always been terribly well policed, but the policy is there. And has been since NHS began - (my DMum trained in the 1950s, and had to have all sorts of jabs before allowed on the wards)

People are not forced to become HCPs, so this is not a caseof forced vaccination.

We have rather lost sight of what a scourge infectious diseases are (because of advances in treatments and vaccinations) so perhaps don't usually think about the risks of the disease and the benefits of prophylaxis

beela · 03/03/2021 07:55

It's a choice whether to have it or not, but people need to accept that all choices have consequences.

OverTheRubicon · 03/03/2021 07:56

We do all have freedom of choice.

If they don't want to get a vaccine, there are plenty of other jobs that won't involve putting the highly vulnerable at risk. It's a pandemic, risks are different.

Lockdownbear · 03/03/2021 07:57

Some of the residents might not have had a choice it maybe they are already too ill or have other issues preventing them from having the vaccine.

The Care Home is with in their rights to insist new staff are vaccinated. If you don't want to have the vaccine don't waste their time applying for the job.

Its could ruin the reputation of a home if they have an outbreak of covid causing the death of residents who are clearly vulnerable.

InkyOctopus · 03/03/2021 07:57

I imagine with a care home, a lot of clients may say “I’m not sending my mum unless all your staff are vaccinated against Covid.”

So from that perspective it’s a business decision perhaps.

Sirzy · 03/03/2021 07:58

I don’t see any issue with those in the care sector being expected to have the vaccine - unless they medically can’t for some reason - to be it comes under the duty of care they have towards the people they are looking to.

The NHS very much does check the vaccination status of people and ensure certain vaccines are up to date.

NailsNeedDoing · 03/03/2021 07:59

It’s wrong for people already in their jobs to be pressured into having the vaccine, but once it is available to everyone, then it would be ok to make vaccination compulsory for new employees, because they would have the choice. It will do nothing to help an already understaffed sector though.

Original poster
MissMarpleTheMurderer · 03/03/2021 07:59

@lljkk

A lot of CH staff enjoy the job, it is a 2nd family situation. I disagree with you there. But most people choose other work & the industry shortage of labour is terrible - true.

I agree there is no logic to what's happening with compulsory jab plans, beyond "we're in a panic". Vaccine requirements are setting precedents about bodily autonomy that I don't like, too.

I give you that, we've been very lucky and the core group of staff do love it but there is a high turnover of staff that just seen it as a bad job.
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Templetree · 03/03/2021 08:01

Actually when you start an NHS job you have bloods that determine whether you have immunity -measles, chicken pox etc and you have to have boosters if not, for anything you can vaccinate against.
Vaccinating staff makes sense.
They will be protected and therefore
Reduce the risks of spreading disease to colleagues and patients.
It reduces the amount of sickness.
It protects those who cant have vaccinations because of allergies.
I cant believe this all needs to be pointed out Confused
Absolutely agree with Ethels

lightand · 03/03/2021 08:02

@ohwaitthatwasme

It's not forced vaccination though, is it? It's simply a choice and without it some things may be limited. And I absolutely think people working in care for vulnerable people should be having it.

You say your mum is leaving her job because she 'doesn't want it' - why is that? Is there any sort of medical reason for it or is it simply as you say 'she doesn't want it'?

There are different sorts of forces and pressures.
Original poster
MissMarpleTheMurderer · 03/03/2021 08:02

@ohwaitthatwasme

It's not forced vaccination though, is it? It's simply a choice and without it some things may be limited. And I absolutely think people working in care for vulnerable people should be having it.

You say your mum is leaving her job because she 'doesn't want it' - why is that? Is there any sort of medical reason for it or is it simply as you say 'she doesn't want it'?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. My mam is in a care home, the best member of staff (imo) is leaving as she doesn't want the jab.

Why should they be-the vulnerable have been offered the vaccine, and in a sector with massive staff shortages how are they going to recruit?

OP posts:
Original poster
MissMarpleTheMurderer · 03/03/2021 08:03

@Bazoo23

It's not forced, it's a requirement for that particular employment. Employees are free to leave if they wish. Can't stand this hysteria about "forced vaccination".
Can you please read the thread. How will we solve staff shortages? Can you explain why you think they should have it.
OP posts:
Original poster
MissMarpleTheMurderer · 03/03/2021 08:04

@beela

It's a choice whether to have it or not, but people need to accept that all choices have consequences.
What consequences ? Are we saying the vaccinated won't be protected, or are we protecting those that don't want to be vaccinated and then surely they have a choice.
OP posts:
lightand · 03/03/2021 08:05

What the care home is doing may be illegal[there have been a number of threads on mumsnet about this]. But employment tribunals wont be heard until the end of the year, for those who are taking their cases to employment tribunals.

Original poster
MissMarpleTheMurderer · 03/03/2021 08:06

@Templetree

Actually when you start an NHS job you have bloods that determine whether you have immunity -measles, chicken pox etc and you have to have boosters if not, for anything you can vaccinate against. Vaccinating staff makes sense. They will be protected and therefore Reduce the risks of spreading disease to colleagues and patients. It reduces the amount of sickness. It protects those who cant have vaccinations because of allergies. I cant believe this all needs to be pointed out Confused Absolutely agree with Ethels
Well that's not true for care staff. Plus I can't believe it needs pointing out that the care sector is so short staffed (Especially of those that really want to do it) its all well and good saying they can get another job, they can, but who is going to do the job they have just left?
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StarCat2020 · 03/03/2021 08:08

It seems very premature of your Mum's carer to quit her job now.

jasjas1973 · 03/03/2021 08:08

It's not forced, it's a requirement for that particular employment
Employees are free to leave if they wish
Can't stand this hysteria about "forced vaccination"

Its a change in their employment contract in which they had no say.

Why not a compulsory flu jab?

Why just CH staff and not ALL NHS staff? lets make that 110k nhs vacancies even bigger....

There are millions of workers who come into contact with the public, on a regular basis, lets threaten them with the sack as well?

Stickytreacle · 03/03/2021 08:09

I suppose if the vaccine was 100% effective, not having the vaccine may still pose a risk to an elderly or vulnerable vaccinated person. I think as a care worker they should want to do everything they can to protect their residents, if that isn't a priority then it possibly isn't the job for them anyway. I would be uncomfortable with someone unvaccinated caring for my elderly immune suppressed mother, even though she's fully vaccinated.

DIshedUp · 03/03/2021 08:09

The NHS does insist on vaccinations though. I had the MM4 but turns out I didn't have immunity, I wasn't allowed to practice until I'd had my booster. Had to have hep B and BCG before I was allowed to train as wsll

It is a low risk vaccine and will protect vulnerable patients. Covid is a significantly higher risk to patients than chicken pox and significantly more prevalent than Hep A. I question the judgement of HCPs who will not have the vaccine without a medical reason

LemonRoses · 03/03/2021 08:09

Staff are already required to demonstrate Hepatitis B vaccination. I wouldn’t want a surgeon operating without it.
Staff are required/encouraged to have a full range of vaccines for their own protection and that of others.

Imagine a chemotherapy nurse working whilst incubating measles.

Original poster
MissMarpleTheMurderer · 03/03/2021 08:09

@Sirzy

I don’t see any issue with those in the care sector being expected to have the vaccine - unless they medically can’t for some reason - to be it comes under the duty of care they have towards the people they are looking to.

The NHS very much does check the vaccination status of people and ensure certain vaccines are up to date.

But the vulnerable are vaccinated. And in a under staffed sector which for many is not a career choice nor plan it's a lot to ask of someone
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