To think it's borderline inhumane to tell the elderly they can't mix after vaccine?

[Jouets]

Just the title really. I'm aware we've all 'lost' a year of our lives but if you're younger, you have (most likely) a lot of time ahead. But it breaks my heart that it's still illegal for me to see my elderly grandparents inside.

I do it anyway (vaccinated, three weeks past, at their request) as they've both said they're not willing to waste anymore time when a) they've been vaccinated which they've said was the whole "end goal" all along to make them safe and b) they don't want to live like this anymore.

Surely if vaccines cut risk of transmission and death, it's borderline inhumane to tell vaccinated elderly people who are over the 'average' life expectancy that they are to carry on with this very limiting life, when they may not have years left anyway?

Maybe I'm just being emotional.

Agree with you 100% It all seems very bizarre - what's the point of prioritising the elderly for vaccinations if it wasn't to keep them out of hospital and allow them a semblance of a normal life?

I have been wondering this. I want to see my mum !

Also I'm not suggesting we create a 'two tier society' and open clubs and pubs for vaccinated 70+ people only. But surely mixing with other vaccinated people at least, or maybe even something simple like allowing them to choose a household to bubble with at the bare minimum.

I'm gutted that there is no time in the near future when I will be allowed to have my parents to stay. The only thing my mum wants to be able to do is see her grandchildren. I can understand the reasons behind it, but I think they need to dangle some hope in people's faces that is nearer than June. I was really hoping to see my parents at Easter after we said no to Christmas.

You can still contract the virus, even if you've had the vaccine, but hopefully, the vaccine will reduce the risk of becoming severely ill.
There are the new variants doing the rounds, and as yet, they are unsure if the vaccine will be fully effective against these - particularly the SA variant.
The more social mixing that goes on, the greater the chance that the new variants will spread and if it does turn out that the vaccine isn't effective enough to protect against these, then we're all back to square one and the situation goes on for even longer.
Not enough of the population have been vaccinated, to make it safe enough for mixing etc just now.

I see your point but I spend a fair amount of time online in spaces inhabited mostly by younger adults who feel that their lives have been almost destroyed in order to safeguard the elderly and that the principles of justice demand that allowing those they were protecting to go out and enjoy contact they are still forbidden from now that said elderly people are vaccinated not happen. I'm not particularly swayed one way or the other but I have so much contact with younger people who are already feeling as if they have been terribly short changed by all this that I think that if those vaccinated already were allowed rights those still waiting were not, we would see real problems.

Apologies for my appalling syntax, I can't face trying to rescue it and hope the point I was making is clear even if my presentation of it is anything but

It's only a couple more months while infection rates are still quite high and hospitals busy (a lot less busy than they were a month ago of course).

By the sounds of many threads on here, people have been making up their own rules for a long time now anyway and mixing if they want to...

@ArchwayRoad

Agree with you 100% It all seems very bizarre - what's the point of prioritising the elderly for vaccinations if it wasn't to keep them out of hospital and allow them a semblance of a normal life?

Because the point wasn’t to allow them a semblance of normal life. It was just to keep them out of hospitals.

I guess it has to be the same for every age group, as otherwise what's the cut off point. No one knows when they've only got a few years left, someone can pass away at say 62, while another lives until 93.

If there isn't a cut off point, then as I've had the vaccine, I'd be able to see anyone I want right now indoors - especially as I have friends who've had theirs. Not doing it though as no vaccine is 100% and there's still high case numbers, so happy to get everyone else as protected as I can.

I don't agree it's inhumane,It's quite a dramatic description of the current requirement to keep people safe.
I did not see my DM since last February(she's over 80)Yes,it is hard but we are lucky to be able to keep in touch via phone/video calls etc.I'm still able to send gifts to cheer her up.We do miss each other and she is missing DCs,but we don't want to risk it.
Each to their own,do whatever you feel comfortable with but I would not compromise their safety when there are other means to keep in touch.

Because the point wasn’t to allow them a semblance of normal life. It was just to keep them out of hospitals

Exactly - the NHS is pretty much on its knees at the best of times - much of the point of lockdown has been to stop it imploding altogether.,

So would you approve of one set of rules for the vaccinated and another for those not? Isn't that the basis of vaccination passports? So can the vaccinated go on holiday? be allowed to go to hairdressers? Once you start changing the rules for the vaccinated where do you stop?

The top and bottom of it there still not safe .

Isn’t this just the protect the vulnerable argument in reverse?

I don’t agree.

The nation has locked down and socially distanced, particularly to protect those in the older age groups. They have been protected first, but the risks to the rest of society remain. The older people now need to wait and think about the other people who are at risk and delay mixing until everyone and not just them has been protected.

I have found the attitude of some older people quite difficult. While I haven’t been able to go to go into work, some I know in the autumn were travelling abroad and taking unnecessary risks. We all have to play our part for ourselves and for others too. It cannot be for anyone that we can be protected and just consider ourselves, but must think about the bigger picture.

Young people in lots of ways, have been thrown under the bus and the long term consisequwncws will be felt with them. Older ready vaccinated people need to now just wait the few more weeks and not just think about themselves.

I think the truth is that there isn’t definitive evidence yet that vaccines stop transmission.
But you would have thought that it would be pretty “safe” for vaccinated people to mix with other vaccinated people. And I suspect it will happen whether it’s legal or not. But the government will not want to create some kind of two tier society as far as it can help it.

I see your point, but I’m more gutted that I’ve had to spend a whole year indoors when I’m at a very tiny risk of becoming unwell with Covid. I’ve protected other people but really, I am healthy and young and should’ve been allowed to get on with my life.

I’ve missed three big moments professionally that only happen once every 10 years, if that. I’ve missed the chance to apply for certain jobs. I couldn’t graduate university properly, I haven’t been able to see my friends. Elderly people have at least lived their lives already. It’s shit they still can’t mix but it’s not that much of a tragedy.

I will never get these years of my 20s back. Never.

No, I think it’s borderline common sense. The government have set out a time-table for opening up and lifting restrictions. All seems very sensible to me.

I have heard younger people really rant about the way the whole Country came to a standstill to protect the very old, in care homes&c.

How businesses have gone to the wall to protect those who had the best of the NHS, affordable housing and free Higher education.

I can understand people’s frustration.
But the NHS is severely underfunded and we have a huge ageing population.
The lockdown was ONLY to stop NHS being overwhelmed..
But the collateral damage to spare the vulnerable is probably worse than the Covid itself.

Plus many so called vulnerable groups refusing vaccine?
If they get ill they will doubtless expect NHS treatments.

I understand why they can't but I feel gutted today, my grandfather has had his jab a few weeks ago but has just been admitted to hospital in a bad way (non Covid related). I haven't seen him at all this year, I'll be devastated if I don't get to see him again.

@Jouets

Also I'm not suggesting we create a 'two tier society' and open clubs and pubs for vaccinated 70+ people only. But surely mixing with other vaccinated people at least, or maybe even something simple like allowing them to choose a household to bubble with at the bare minimum.

But that is creating a two tier society

So your parents resume normal life, contract covid, pass it onto you, you don’t realise for a while and go to the supermarket x 1000

Obviously they can’t go mixing indiscriminately yet

We’ve just sacrificed a year of life to keep them safe. Time for them to give it a few more weeks until we can all be safe

The reason we must stay like this for a while is like another poster said with newer variants and mutations of the virus whilst we are all being vaccinated it would be a disaster for transmission to carry on the more transmission the more mutations , I think the government should spell this out and make people understand it more clearly x

Who else is sick to death of the stupid term BUBBLE 😬