To think it's borderline inhumane to tell the elderly they can't mix after vaccine?

[Jouets]

Just the title really. I'm aware we've all 'lost' a year of our lives but if you're younger, you have (most likely) a lot of time ahead. But it breaks my heart that it's still illegal for me to see my elderly grandparents inside.

I do it anyway (vaccinated, three weeks past, at their request) as they've both said they're not willing to waste anymore time when a) they've been vaccinated which they've said was the whole "end goal" all along to make them safe and b) they don't want to live like this anymore.

Surely if vaccines cut risk of transmission and death, it's borderline inhumane to tell vaccinated elderly people who are over the 'average' life expectancy that they are to carry on with this very limiting life, when they may not have years left anyway?

Maybe I'm just being emotional.

@ArchwayRoad

Agree with you 100% It all seems very bizarre - what's the point of prioritising the elderly for vaccinations if it wasn't to keep them out of hospital and allow them a semblance of a normal life?

Society has stopped for a year to protect the older/vulnerable groups.

The least they can do is sit tight and wait until restrictions/lockdowns are ended for ALL.

It's not only unfair, it's utterly selfish for those vaccinated first to return to their normality whilst everyone else who has suffered lockdowns, losing their jobs/businesses, etc., has to continue to abide with the restrictions.

It's not long now. EVERYONE has to continue to do their bit for the whole country to come out of covid as quickly, but safely, as possible.

@oakleaffy

Who else is sick to death of the stupid term BUBBLE 😬

Me!! Will die happy if I never have to hear it again.

You can still catch the virus and pass it on after having the vaccine. It’s about protecting others. Which is what we have all been doing this whole time to protect elderly people like your grandparents. It would be horrifically unfair if they were allowed to see whoever they wanted now when younger people, including children, aren’t allowed, when these low risk people have given up so much to protect more vulnerable people.

The elderly just had to follow the same guidelines as everyone else
Those shielding who aren't elderly and have had the first vaccine are still shielding. Some of us haven't had any restrictions lifted at all and have been inside for a year. So no, it's not fair but it is what it is. I get why I still have to shield until after my second vaccine

Isn't it because there's still a substantial risk of serious illness/hospitalisation for some of those not yet vaccinated, so letting the vaccinated do whatever they want will substantially increase risk to this group? We've been banged over the head with examples of 30-40 odd year olds in ICU for the past few months, so you can't now just say that group's fine and let the elderly crack on. The more people in the lower age groups who catch it, the more will be in hospital with it.

I've heard grandparents think it's just fine now to see their grandchildren, not really giving a shit about the potential risk they could pose to their own adult children.

I can understand what you mean, but I think as well as the risk of transmission, new variants etc, you also have to consider the wider impact it would have on compliance.

For many people, the risk from
Covid is tiny. Those people living under restrictions means the spread of covid is reduced, so less people end up in hospital. This means that our hospitals are able to treat anyone who needs it, covid or something else.

If the message is that those vaccinated are protected enough to be able to ‘mix’ (so won’t be ill enough to require hospital treatment), I fear it would lead to a lot of people thinking what’s the point? It could potentially be an absolute disaster, and put us back to pretty much where we started.

It's not only unfair, it's utterly selfish for those vaccinated first to return to their normality whilst everyone else who has suffered lockdowns, losing their jobs/businesses, etc., has to continue to abide with the restrictions.

But what's the harm in the vaccinated mixing amongst themselves now - it's not like they are suddenly all off down the pub. They will be abiding with the restrictions the same as everyone else as everywhere is still shut.

I’m using my parents for childcare now they’ve been vaccinated 🤷🏼‍♀️ I mean, we could anyway but I chose not too. But now I feel much better about doing so & god, to be able to work without a baby & a 3 year old is incredible! I actually feel useful again & not like I’m about to get fired!

But what's the harm in the vaccinated mixing amongst themselves now - it's not like they are suddenly all off down the pub

This really highlights how much our perception of what harm is has been affected by this whole crisis. There are harms other than ill deaths from covid. The harm to mental health and social cohesion would be huge.

Nope, I think they vaccinate everyone like crazy then 'open up' for all. Not just older folk. If you take deaths out of the equation, younger folk have been disproportionately affected by this in terms of lifestyle, economics, job future and so on. They stayed in for the safety of older people, older people should now stay in in return. They definitely shouldn't be allowed to travel abroad before anyone else just because they have a vaccine.

They should also have triple lock pensions downgraded to double lock for the next 3 years, and the money poured into opportunities for the under 25s.

The impact this would have on the unvaccinated populations compliance and mental health would be huge.

This last lockdown has destroyed me, to see vaccinated people mixing, while I'm still restricted would be the last straw.

I know statistically they have less time left, but others have lost important years of their life that they won't get back either. Think university courses, end of school proms, first years of babies life's, weddings going from 100 to 6 people, etc.

It's just over a week until you can see them for a coffee outside, another 4 and you can do so in the garden. The weather is brightening up, just hold on in there.

But what's the harm in the vaccinated mixing amongst themselves now

Those aged 18-25 could well have made the same argument since last March! There was never any significant risk to that age group when mixing between themselves, but they had to stop because that mixing had an impact on the rest of society too.

The young/healthy have put their lives on hold to protect the older/vulnerable. If the latter start to ignore the restrictions everyone else is still adhering to, it's sticking two fingers up to everyone else.

Those shielding who've had the jab are now safer to actually go out and do the things everyone else is allowed to do. That itself is a big win for those who've barely left the house in nearly a year.

If you had occasion to dial 999 in January you would realise why the answer is still 'no'. Hopefully not for too much longer.

I think if both families have received 2 dosages of the vaccine and are a few weeks past the second, then it makes sense that you could meet.

As soon as you involve one person that hasn’t been vaccinated, it becomes a problem.

Because many of us haven't had the vaccine to mix with our older relatives yet. It's hardly fair to say mr&mrs smith at number 52 can see their daughter because she's a nurse thus vaccinated but mr & Mrs jones at 54 can't see their son because he works at Asda! One set of rules for all those is the only fair approach until we have vaccinated a larger portion and crucially overall rates are reduced significantly

Surely the point is that unlike your grandparents and you, most people haven't had both injections yet and many haven't had one.

And if you say twojabs can only mix with twojabs you'll have more people playing the system to get theirs as it will create inequalities

@user1497207191

The young/healthy have put their lives on hold to protect the older/vulnerable. If the latter start to ignore the restrictions everyone else is still adhering to, it's sticking two fingers up to everyone else.

Those shielding who've had the jab are now safer to actually go out and do the things everyone else is allowed to do. That itself is a big win for those who've barely left the house in nearly a year.

This. All of this.

God I've not seen anyone for ages to protect the elderly, and now they've got their vaccine they want to mix while the rest of us still aren't allowed to. So bloody selfish.

I know people who've had to give birth totally alone and without their partners - to protect the elderly.

People who've got married with no guests and celebrated on zoom - to protect the elderly.

Kids who have had their exams cancelled. Others who are missing out on socialisation or education - to protect the elderly.

People who've been made redundant and lost their livelihoods because businesses have shut down - to protect the flipping elderly.

All of this and now older people have been vaccinated they think they should be allowed to mix or have their own special bubbles instead of waiting two or three months until everyone is safe.

If that's allowed I imagine next time there is a pandemic that puts old people at risk then the young will understandably refuse to isolate or lockdown or whatever is needed.

They'll just say we can mix safely and why on earth shouldn't we? To protect older people who have no interest in protecting us?

Young people could have safely mixed all along. The risks were tiny. But they were not allowed to do so AT GREAT PERSONAL COST to protect the elderly.

They absolutely should not be penalised and kept indoors longer while they wait for a vaccine. Especially not when the only reason they are still on vaccine lists is to... guess what... protect the elderly.

@minniemoocher

Because many of us haven't had the vaccine to mix with our older relatives yet. It's hardly fair to say mr&mrs smith at number 52 can see their daughter because she's a nurse thus vaccinated but mr & Mrs jones at 54 can't see their son because he works at Asda! One set of rules for all those is the only fair approach until we have vaccinated a larger portion and crucially overall rates are reduced significantly

I don't really get this attitude - if I can't do something then no one else should be able to. Why not a more live and let live approach. Why should the mental health of everyone suffer for as long as possible? I don't actually have any elderly relatives so I have no vested interest in this. And yes I know younger people have sacrificed so much but hopefully they'll have a lot of years ahead of them after this is all over, some elderly people might not have all that long to go so why make them spend the little time they have left in social isolation when they have been vaccinated?

God I’ve not seen anyone for ages to protect the elderly, and now they’ve got their vaccine they want to mix Do you know this from a reliable source or is this just your imagination? All the elderly I know are saying “the vaccine’s not going to make any difference to the way I behave”.

The elderly have also paid a cost. My father hasn’t been able to have a conversation with anyone in his family for a year, and there’s no prospect of that happening until April. The elderly who feel they’d prefer to “take their chances” have still had to isolate to protect others. Social isolation has hit them hard - many live alone, and don’t even have work zoom meetings. I don’t recognise this picture of young people alone suffering while the elderly have lived the life of Riley the last year.

Of course, the elderly are only indirect beneficiaries. If COVID had been like the sweating sickness of Tudor times, alive and well in the morning, dead by evening, there would have been no lockdown. The lockdown was to avoid sick elderly people clogging up the nhs, not to save the lives of the elderly per se.

Op, you need to watch the Horizon programme that was on BBC2 last night, with the Van Tulleken brothers.
Called "Coronavirus special:What we know now".
That will make it all clearer to you and your Grandparents in a measured, non-dramatic way, why the instructions are as they are.

But given that you're doing what you want anyway, it's a bit of a moot point and, if you were hoping to whip up some sympathy for "the elderly" with your post, I would suggest you've managed to succeed in achieving the complete opposite.

it breaks my heart that it's still illegal for me to see my elderly grandparents inside

There are lots of nice places outside, assuming they are not housebound.

Young people could have safely mixed all along. The risks were tiny. But they were not allowed to do so AT GREAT PERSONAL COST to protect the elderly.

This is contradictory, young people could not have 'safely mixed all along' because it's never solely about your (their) personal risk but the risk of passing it on to someone at higher risk, who are predominately older (but not just 'the elderly'). Because at least some of those young people would also inevitably come into contact with other people who are at higher risk, either at home or at work or when out shopping etc...

@MereDintofPandiculation

God I’ve not seen anyone for ages to protect the elderly, and now they’ve got their vaccine they want to mix Do you know this from a reliable source or is this just your imagination? All the elderly I know are saying “the vaccine’s not going to make any difference to the way I behave”.

The elderly have also paid a cost. My father hasn’t been able to have a conversation with anyone in his family for a year, and there’s no prospect of that happening until April. The elderly who feel they’d prefer to “take their chances” have still had to isolate to protect others. Social isolation has hit them hard - many live alone, and don’t even have work zoom meetings. I don’t recognise this picture of young people alone suffering while the elderly have lived the life of Riley the last year.

Of course, the elderly are only indirect beneficiaries. If COVID had been like the sweating sickness of Tudor times, alive and well in the morning, dead by evening, there would have been no lockdown. The lockdown was to avoid sick elderly people clogging up the nhs, not to save the lives of the elderly per se.

I'm talking specifically about OP and all the other people on this thread demanding that the elderly should be allowed to mix.

(Although there are also several older people I know IRL who have been vaccinated and are already breaking the rules because they are "safe")

@CoffeeandCroissant

Young people could have safely mixed all along. The risks were tiny. But they were not allowed to do so AT GREAT PERSONAL COST to protect the elderly.

This is contradictory, young people could not have 'safely mixed all along' because it's never solely about your (their) personal risk but the risk of passing it on to someone at higher risk, who are predominately older (but not just 'the elderly'). Because at least some of those young people would also inevitably come into contact with other people who are at higher risk, either at home or at work or when out shopping etc...

This is exactly the point I'm making. The Op says surely those that are vaccinated should be allowed to mix because "they are safe". But of course it's not safe for everyone else if they do.

By Op's logic the young could have mixed all along because they were were low risk. However they were not allowed to do so because of the risks to other people (namely the elderly). Now the elderly should not be allowed until everyone has been vaccinated for the exact same reasons.