To think it's borderline inhumane to tell the elderly they can't mix after vaccine?

[Jouets]

Just the title really. I'm aware we've all 'lost' a year of our lives but if you're younger, you have (most likely) a lot of time ahead. But it breaks my heart that it's still illegal for me to see my elderly grandparents inside.

I do it anyway (vaccinated, three weeks past, at their request) as they've both said they're not willing to waste anymore time when a) they've been vaccinated which they've said was the whole "end goal" all along to make them safe and b) they don't want to live like this anymore.

Surely if vaccines cut risk of transmission and death, it's borderline inhumane to tell vaccinated elderly people who are over the 'average' life expectancy that they are to carry on with this very limiting life, when they may not have years left anyway?

Maybe I'm just being emotional.

Agree with @teachermummy1 - I'd be bloody pissed if I saw the vaccinated elderly whose protected pensions won't be touched to Pay for
This mess coming out of restrictions before the rest of us....us being the ones who will be paying for it for decades to come and have paid for it through job losses, losing homes and losing education etc

I can see your point and my DM is vaccinated and fed up of wasting her golden years stuck in but as the vaccines are fully investigated yet, I think it would be a bit of a kick in the face for the 70+ cohort to mix and enjoy themselves now they are no longer at risk of dying when the young are still to be cooped up and have been all this time when they have never been at high risk of dying.

I get your point completely about them having longer left but at this point it only May before you can visit 6 inside or 2 households (hopefully).

I think if both families have received 2 dosages of the vaccine and are a few weeks past the second, then it makes sense that you could meet.

In reality this can only apply to a tiny, tiny number of people. 1st vaccines were 2nd week of December, with 3 weeks between doses 2nd dose was 4th week (26th onwards) The schedule changed in the 1st week of January. Anyone who had their 1st dose after 14th of December is getting their 2nd this week.

Because they can still pass it on to un vaccinated people i guess? There are millions of people who haven't had the vaccination yet.

Letting a half-vaccinated group with weaker immune systems mingle, while rates are really high, is basically the best way you could think of to create vaccine-resistant variants.

The young have given up such valuable time and huge amounts of current and future earnings to mostly protect the elderly. They can stay with the same restrictions as everyone else for a few more months.

Not once throughout this past year have I thought that we are doing what we are doing to protect the elderly only - we were/are doing it to protect everyone.

So much unpleasant to read vitriol towards old people on this thread - one poster even saying that a year in an old person’s life matters so much less. Why?

Also - where are all these old people now doing what they want and/or berating the young?

What’s been very hard for elderly people is thinking they might never see family members again. And, mostly being out of the workforce, they have been more likely to suffer extreme loneliness. It is only being able to go to work which has got me through this last lockdown.

I agree that vaccinated or not, we still need to follow the rules, but why all the comments about old people...

The rules will slowly break down now IMO - once again due to the way the government has announced the relaxation of measures and introduced arbitrary dates while we are still at a too high number of daily cases - but if that happens, it will be across all age groups, not just the elderly.

I feel very sorry for the effects of all this on my elderly PIL (who haven't always obeyed the rules.)
I feel far far sorrier for my 15-25 year old DC and nephews for the impact on them now and in the future. And I would argue a year of their life is worth more.
The behaviour of the older generation in the coming weeks will be very telling and do nothing to dispel the sense of entitlement very many exude. I already see the berating attitude to the young every day in my job (nurse).
Rule and yes yes to the pensions idea.

The behaviour of the older generation in the coming weeks will be very telling and do nothing to dispel the sense of entitlement very many exude

Completely agree

I suspect there will be very much a "we pay while you play" feeling building which will harbour feelings of resentment amongst working age taxpayers especially if they don't tax pensions to pay for this.

I'm aware we've all 'lost' a year of our lives but if you're younger, you have (most likely) a lot of time ahead.

This bit doesn't make sense, if you are younger you have a lot of time ahead, however if you are older you have already had that time.

Everyone has suffered in this pandemic. It's not a competition

74 year old here. I had my first vaccine 3 weeks as did those of my friends in this age group. We have not changed our behaviour one iota . We are all acting as though we haven’t been vaccinated. The only difference I feel is that if I am put in a situation I can’t control eg emergency admission to hospital, necessary appointment at dentist, GPS I won’t feel quire as worried as I would have pre vaccine. I fully understand that the vaccine ( even after a 2nd dose ) is not 100% effective. I also understand that the risk of my transmitting it post vaccine if I’m infected is 25-30% ( ish). Why on earth would I want to risk myself or others? I do also understand that as vaccine rates rise AND community infections fall, the risks also lessen.

My two dgc live locally and I will not be seeing them until we’re allowed under the rules that apply to everyone, hopefully from 29th March. We will meet outside and stay socially distanced. We meet regularly on Zoom. I am meeting DD outside sded in park whether permitting for Mother's Day. We’re a very huggy family normally but if hugs are an expression of love, how much more is not hugging in COVId times an expression of love?

Totally disagree OP. Young people have stayed home for a year had their education hugely impacted. This was to protect the elderly and vulnerable. It would be immoral to now say those who have been vaccinated can socialise etc.

No I don’t agree.... older people are already out browsing in our ‘essentials’ store! They think it’s fine now THEY have had the vaccine. Why should staff have to put up with this extra footfall?

Oh and who serves them at the till? Young we unvaccinated people

Rub it in their faces, lovely!

I agree with what @Wingedharpy said

Even if you tried to stagger it then it will be very confusing. Those in care homes are being allowed a visitor soon.

@Wingedharpy

You can still contract the virus, even if you've had the vaccine, but hopefully, the vaccine will reduce the risk of becoming severely ill. There are the new variants doing the rounds, and as yet, they are unsure if the vaccine will be fully effective against these - particularly the SA variant. The more social mixing that goes on, the greater the chance that the new variants will spread and if it does turn out that the vaccine isn't effective enough to protect against these, then we're all back to square one and the situation goes on for even longer. Not enough of the population have been vaccinated, to make it safe enough for mixing etc just now.

This.

Also, have your parents had both doses of the vaccine, or just one? I do know of a man in his 80's who had his first dose in December, caught covid after (no idea how many weeks), and died in January.

We're so close to restrictions being lifted. Why risk it?

@Justforphoto

So would you approve of one set of rules for the vaccinated and another for those not? Isn't that the basis of vaccination passports? So can the vaccinated go on holiday? be allowed to go to hairdressers? Once you start changing the rules for the vaccinated where do you stop?

I, it looks like, an in Group 10 (40-49) to be vaccinated - maybe this group will start being done in April? If 'vaccination passports' are brought in before this so people can, for example, start going on holidays / theatres / out out etc then I won't be offended / jealous / think I am part of a 2-Tier society - surely I will just think that soon it will be my turn?

The argue about them not having much time left is immaterial really, we’ve all lost a year. So if you are 28 and you lost 27-28 then that older person didn’t lose 27-28, they maybe lost 80-81.

Arguably, the younger person lost a ‘better’ year of their life.

I've had an electrician come in my house without a mask like "Don't worry I've had the vaccine" (Quickly got educated)

and in the supermarket yesterday, an elderly woman tried to touch my bump and smile witting on about how she's safe she's had the vaccine! In the most politest way I told her, she can still catch covid, transmit the virus and it could have devastating impact on someone like me (third trimester, congenital heart disease,)

I think it's so selfish. Even my grandparents have been mixing and all sorts with the family, because they are under the impression because they are okay. That's all that matters.

This generation elderly are actually quite selfish.

Surely it's not only about protecting the elderly? The lockdown's primary purpose is to stop the nhs being overwhelmed. Younger people are also just as much at risk of long covid, and if the virus gets totally out of control we could end up with a generation of people with permanent health problems.

@OverTheRubicon

Letting a half-vaccinated group with weaker immune systems mingle, while rates are really high, is basically the best way you could think of to create vaccine-resistant variants.

The young have given up such valuable time and huge amounts of current and future earnings to mostly protect the elderly. They can stay with the same restrictions as everyone else for a few more months.

Exactly.

No one can mix post vaccine ! I’m vaccinated (HCP) As has my mum who is considered vulnerable . I haven’t seen her for nearly a year. There is still a risk even if you’ve been vaccinated.

If they change the rules and let vaccinated people mix then I am done with this totally done.

I have followed every funking rule, I kept my kids home from school when I could have sent them, I have not seen my family or friends for month. All of that I have done to protect others.

I don't have family nearby. My wee group of 4 are not vulnerable. Yet my actions have potentially saved others because we have not caught covid and we have not spread it.

My kids (like others) have missed over 6 months in the classroom. And had no socialisation for such a long time.

This for me would be the final straw. And I am one who generally gets on with it and doesn't complain. But we can only beat this if we do it together.

Last summer, when you could rule of six indoors and eat out to help out, I didn’t do it. I met my mum once, in her garden, for 3 hours - that’s it. I wanted to protect myself (CV, recently upgraded to CEV), my mum, and the residents of the care home where DH works.

Now, I’ve had Covid (very fatigued, but otherwise thankfully not too bad and fully recovered) and my first vaccine, and my mum has had hers. And by the time indoor mixing is permitted in May, we will both have had second doses.

So, will I see her then? Yes - but only when it is allowed by law. The vaccine gives me the confidence to do this. But if the mixing indoors was delayed until June, or July, I would continue to comply.

In other words, the vaccine gives me the confidence to do as much as the law allows me to do, rather than staying several miles within it like I did last year. I won’t break the law just because I think the vaccine makes it safe.

Relaxing restrictions where people can take vaccinations into account looks to be in the Roadmap from 17th May, www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-response-spring-2021/covid-19-response-spring-2021
"At Step 3, the Government will further ease limits on social contact, enabling the public to make informed personal decisions. It will remain important for people to consider the risks for themselves, taking into account whether they and those they meet have been vaccinated or are at greater risk."