To think it's borderline inhumane to tell the elderly they can't mix after vaccine?

[Jouets]

Just the title really. I'm aware we've all 'lost' a year of our lives but if you're younger, you have (most likely) a lot of time ahead. But it breaks my heart that it's still illegal for me to see my elderly grandparents inside.

I do it anyway (vaccinated, three weeks past, at their request) as they've both said they're not willing to waste anymore time when a) they've been vaccinated which they've said was the whole "end goal" all along to make them safe and b) they don't want to live like this anymore.

Surely if vaccines cut risk of transmission and death, it's borderline inhumane to tell vaccinated elderly people who are over the 'average' life expectancy that they are to carry on with this very limiting life, when they may not have years left anyway?

Maybe I'm just being emotional.

It is to keep people "safe"..haven't you read the memo??! I agree it is nonsense....there is more to life that Covid. There really really is...

I think we know full well that being vaccinated reduces transmission significantly.

I can’t imagine the government want this widely publicised until more are vaccinated.

In the meantime, there will naturally be three camps.

(1) I’m going to do as I’m told and believe everything

(2) I don’t believe what I’m told, but I will comply with the rules

(3) I’m fully vaccinated, I can’t transmit the virus, I’m done.

@Malteser71

I think we know full well that being vaccinated reduces transmission significantly.

I can’t imagine the government want this widely publicised until more are vaccinated.

In the meantime, there will naturally be three camps.

(1) I’m going to do as I’m told and believe everything

(2) I don’t believe what I’m told, but I will comply with the rules

(3) I’m fully vaccinated, I can’t transmit the virus, I’m done.

There is another option.

(4) I do (mostly) believe what I'm told and will continue complying with the rules, but I am also capable of making my own risk assessments and taking informed decisions by myself. I won't be going round spreading Covid to dozens of people at in illegal party, but I can decide on my own if I want to have a friend for dinner.

I suspect there will be very much a "we pay while you play" feeling building which will harbour feelings of resentment amongst working age taxpayers especially if they don't tax pensions to pay for this. It’s inconceivable that extra taxes will be directed to the under 67s only, at the least it will be applied regardless of age as at present. You do realise that pensions are taxable, even the state pension?

They might extend NI payments to the retired. Debatable how much that will accrue because any extra the state takes from pensioners it ends up paying back in social care costs.

But how much evidence is there of the elderly “playing”? There’s nowhere for them to go. How much of this anger is based on people thinking what they’d do once vaccinated rather than on what those vaccinated are actually doing?

I think it will cause massive division in the country to give any other message out. I would wager if the government give the message that you can socialise once your vaccinated a. most of the vaccinated will do just that and b. the rest will either say 'fuck it' and do the same or at best be increasingly resentful at the continuing restrictions on their freedom of movement, which will be almost entirely age-based. It's really important that some degree of equity is retained/perceived or future compliance (if we need further lockdown in this or another pandemic) will also reduce.

I forgot (4) Eileen, and I quite agree.

In fact I think I’m one

@Malteser71

I think we know full well that being vaccinated reduces transmission significantly.

I can’t imagine the government want this widely publicised until more are vaccinated.

In the meantime, there will naturally be three camps.

(1) I’m going to do as I’m told and believe everything

(2) I don’t believe what I’m told, but I will comply with the rules

(3) I’m fully vaccinated, I can’t transmit the virus, I’m done.

But people with the vaccine still.have a decent chance of catching it. And a partially vaccinated population of people with reduced immune function.(ie the elderly, and many of those who are cev), are basically the perfect petri dish for generating new vaccine strains.

So yes, until numbers are lower and they are fully vaccinated, anyone elderly who is using this excuse to socialise, without massive extenuating circumstances (and not mild to moderate mental health, because we'll all.have far worse mental health if a new vaccine resistant strain emerges and it's another 6-12 months and second vaccination drive to delay our return to relative freedom) is a selfish twat.

So yes, until numbers are lower and they are fully vaccinated, anyone elderly who is using this excuse to socialise, without massive extenuating circumstances (and not mild to moderate mental health, because we'll all.have far worse mental health if a new vaccine resistant strain emerges and it's another 6-12 months and second vaccination drive to delay our return to relative freedom) is a selfish twat. But is there anything to suggest there are more selfish twats among the elderly than any other age group? Or is the real offence of the elderly that they were given the vaccine first?

@StarCat2020

come his summer birthday, we can get him out into the world to celebrate. He's not what he was after being lockdown for so long That sounds like a sensible plan and hopefully he will have had his second jab by then!!

Thank you StarCat2020. He should have had his 2nd jab by then. We're all carefully rule following and will all be vaccinated because we want this situation to end and not have to visit him from behind a screen. It's basically like a prison visit at the moment. All we need are the phones like an American movie!

@MereDintofPandiculation

So yes, until numbers are lower and they are fully vaccinated, anyone elderly who is using this excuse to socialise, without massive extenuating circumstances (and not mild to moderate mental health, because we'll all.have far worse mental health if a new vaccine resistant strain emerges and it's another 6-12 months and second vaccination drive to delay our return to relative freedom) is a selfish twat. But is there anything to suggest there are more selfish twats among the elderly than any other age group? Or is the real offence of the elderly that they were given the vaccine first?

The entire thread is about the elderly having suffered enough, so that's what I referred to. But of course it applies to anyone - and even more so anyone with reduced immune functioning (mostly this is the elderly and cev) who are more likely to end up in hospital even if the vaccine means they get a milder version, as well as being even better incubators for new variants.

I think it was borderline inhumane to tell the young they had to stay at home and not mix, but we all did to protect Older people and the elderly, because it was important to society that we did so.

To ‘release‘ those who have been vaccinated and allow them to return to normal life while those who have not been vaccinated have to continue to stay at home Would be massively unfair After the Young did everything they were asked and gave up their lives for the best part of a year. And I have been vaccinated.
I don’t think the young will tolerate another lockdown (which there is no guarantee we won’t end up with) If there is a two tier system for letting us out of lockdown based on vaccinations.

I don’t think the young will tolerate another lockdown (which there is no guarantee we won’t end up with) If there is a two tier system for letting us out of lockdown based on vaccinations.
I don't think the young will tolerate another lockdown full stop, once the collateral damage from the first three lockdowns becomes apparent. All those students graduating into Saint Boris's recession (which the merry men have so far kept hidden behind their smoke and mirrors) will not be happy, to name but one reason. We could be seeing scenes like the camping on the steps of St Paul's Cathedral if the government fucks up how they handle the aftermath of lockdown as well.

Complain to the virus which is not human so has no concept of humanity.

These restrictions are not invented for fun. If people took the time to listen and made an effort they might even be able to follow the reasoning. It's not exactly rocket science.

It would be fascinating to see how some people would fare if they were in lifeboats after their ship sank. I imagine a large percentage demanding the right to leave the lifeboat. Others insisting that their first class ticket entitled them to their own lifeboat.

Would we hear that "the young won't tolerate being kept in a lifeboat much longer"?

What are they going to do? lie on the pavement and scream until they are taken to a country that doesn't have a pandemic?

@loulouljh

It is to keep people "safe"..haven't you read the memo??! I agree it is nonsense....there is more to life that Covid. There really really is...

...and let's be honest. We all know that covid is a hoax invented to spread 5G don't we. It was on facebook.

The elderly should be allowed to mix now. The young will have to wait. It was the young who were out raving last year when the elderly had to shield.

@Maryann1975

I think it was borderline inhumane to tell the young they had to stay at home and not mix, but we all did to protect Older people and the elderly, because it was important to society that we did so. To ‘release‘ those who have been vaccinated and allow them to return to normal life while those who have not been vaccinated have to continue to stay at home Would be massively unfair After the Young did everything they were asked and gave up their lives for the best part of a year. And I have been vaccinated. I don’t think the young will tolerate another lockdown (which there is no guarantee we won’t end up with) If there is a two tier system for letting us out of lockdown based on vaccinations.

If they've waited this long, then what's another few months until they've had their vaccine?

@User133847

The elderly should be allowed to mix now. The young will have to wait. It was the young who were out raving last year when the elderly had to shield.

It was the young who were locked up to protect the elderly. I didn’t need to stay at home, I was quite happy to keep going about my life and contract an illness which, at my age, I have an over 99% chance of only suffering mild symptoms from.

If me and the people I’d mix with are happy to take the risk, why aren’t we allowed to meet up? Why have children, teenagers and people in their 20s had to sacrifice a year of their life which they will never get back, to protect the elderly? Our mental health is shot. We’ve missed milestones and many education/professional opportunities which will never come again.

The elderly can wait a few more months. They’ve been 20, no one took those years away from them. It’s not fair young people keep being forgotten.

If they've waited this long, then what's another few months until they've had their vaccine?

You know, there are some of us youngsters in other countries were we won’t be having the vaccine in a few months. It might be another year or two. By that point, I won’t have wasted 5% of my life, but 10% of it. That’s a lot.

It makes absolutely no sense to keep us locked in when we’re young, we’re healthy, we pose very little threat to hospitals collapsing. I say this as someone who has stuck to every single rule and will continue to do so for the foreseeable. It’s just tiresome, because none of this benefits us. Absolutely none of it.

@User133847 the elderly never had to shield. Not because of age
People of ALL AGES had to shield because of medical conditions

I attended an in line funeral mass yesterday for my Aunt, who was in a nursing home and none of us had seen her in person in months, who caught covid and died after her first injection, before recurring second. Sad enough she’s died, worse that we all couldn’t go.

Do you REALLY think it’s inhumane to wait just a little bit longer?

@User133847

The elderly should be allowed to mix now. The young will have to wait. It was the young who were out raving last year when the elderly had to shield.

Oh yes, all those youngsters out raving

I worry more about the children and young people who are not at risk but can't see their friends or other children, go to school, do sports or do anything else If they have to give up at least a year of their lives and some of their mental health to protect the elderly the elderly should not be socialising either.

@User133847

The elderly should be allowed to mix now. The young will have to wait. It was the young who were out raving last year when the elderly had to shield.

A tiny, tiny proportion of "the young" went to raves. The vast majority followed the rules. Same with the spreading of covid in Universities. It was mostly because of the communal living style with Uni flats/halls having shared kitchens, sometimes shared bathrooms, shared lounges etc. When you're stuck in a Uni flat with 13 other people, all sharing a tiny kitchen, all day every day, it's inevitable that if one student catches covid, they'll all catch it.

[quote QueenPaw]@User133847 the elderly never had to shield. Not because of age
People of ALL AGES had to shield because of medical conditions [/quote]
They didn't even "have to" shield. Many didn't and made their own risk assessments. It was never illegal for a "shielding" person to go to the shops, or even the pub or on holiday when it was allowed for everyone else. Obviously, it was unwise for them not to shield, but a great many didn't.

@user1497207191 no of course but there are SO many posts saying the elderly were shielding and it's not true
My point is shielding was never based on age. My 70+ parents just followed the same guidance as everyone, I shielded