Employer disadvantaging and threatening staff who haven’t had the vaccine

[MrsFCastle]

My partner works in health and social care. He isn’t an anti vaxxer. Just feels it’s too soon. His employer is furious and is threatening to stop offering shifts if they don’t get it. I’m genuinely concerned about his job security. Can they do this? Helpful replies only please. This isn’t a thread about anti/pro vax.

Health & Social Care?

A bit vague. If he's a carer or working in close contact with elderly or vulnerable people I 100% agree with his employee, I'm afraid.

He needs to just have the vaccine.

@RedcurrantPuff

It has been explained several times why Covid vaccines have been produced more quickly than others. Why does this equate to them being “rushed”? Also I don’t know if anyone knows but there’s a pandemic on killing loads of people and trashing societies and economies, why would a solution for that being “rushed” be a bad thing?

What reasons were they, then, apart from preventing Covid related deaths and illnesses?

Good point @RedcurrentPuff.

I wonder how the amount of money and man hours put into the Covid vaccines compares to other vaccines. Also the techniques for making them aren’t new, they just needed to make the right specificity.

It’s like comparing how long it took to build the first computers to how long it takes to bring out a new iPhone. Also the advances in computing to model new vaccines is massive compared to the 60s or even 80s.

If employees CAN'T enforce this they bloody well should be able to!

I certainly wouldn't allow anyone who'd turned down the vaccine to provide care for my elderly grandparents, that's for sure!

There has been much more money thrown at R and D of Covid vaccines so there hasn’t had to be a pause for funding to become available as often happens with other vaccines or drugs

At least some of the vaccines used existing vaccine bases which means their development hasn’t had to start from scratch

This is quite easily found online if you look.

@Scarriff

I have the strong impression that the minority siding with op are actually anti vaccers perhaps for differing reasons. We all agree you should do what you want with your body but please do not attend sick and vulnerable people with that attitude.

It’s not an awful lot different from somebody who refuses a vaccine and then goes and sits next to someone in the cinema for 3 hours, or on a 6 hour train journey and infects somebody vulnerable. Or a resident or relative who refuses a vaccine and then visits the care home. Or any number of subcontractors who work in care homes and private homes. Either people are entitled to choose what medical treatment they want or it’s ok to insist on it for the safety of others.

@AdriannaP

17m people had a vaccine and “it’s too soon” for him? Seriously he needs to get a grip or work somewhere without people contact. It’s a global pandemic!!

This. He needs to give his head a wobble.

@Nearly47

OP, I don't they can do that bit they may try to make his life harder. Tell him to contact citizens advice bureau. I think they can send a letter of warning to his employer if they are discriminating against him.

Not wanting a vaccine is not a protected characteristic

I think that compared to the hepatitis B vaccine, the Covid ones have been rushed

What protocols or safety criteria do you think the Covid vaccines should have gone through but didn’t?

Deciding that they are rushed purely because they didn’t take as long as a totally different vaccine from 40 years ago is just silly.

@Nearly47

OP, I don't they can do that bit they may try to make his life harder. Tell him to contact citizens advice bureau. I think they can send a letter of warning to his employer if they are discriminating against him.

I’m assuming this is a joke post? 😂

@TheKeatingFive

I too work in healthcare and I don’t want the Covid vaccine

So how long are you prepared to spend in lockdown until you’re convinced?

Oh that's ok then just let the rest of us have it to protect you

The only thing newsworthy about this is that it's being discussed now, and not 3 months before the vaccine was released.

I'm an NHS surgeon, there have always been occupational health requirements I've had to meet in order to work - I had to have a hepatitis B vaccine and boosters, provide evidence of either varicella infection or vaccination, same with TB, I've been tested for hepatits, hiv.

I'll admit its a bit unfair if somebody is already employed to 'change the rules' but its a new world since this pandemic. If it were up to me I'd make it compulsory for new starters, and a mandatory part of annual review / appraisal for people currently working.

NicolaC17 the moment you used the word 'poison' and mentioned Bill Gates, you outed yourself as a conspiracy theorist and antivaxxer whose words have no validity.

Please read this info on this link and you will find out all you need to know with regards to this matter of V. at work. Employers don't have the right to ask you to do this. Good luck.

uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5fa5866942937a4d73918723/6034d75d99ca064068db36c5_UKMFA_L4L_Workers_Union-Employers_Vaccine_Open_Letter.pdf

@hoopmatrix but why would you not have something done which benefits the people you are looking after?
You do have a duty of care.
I would quite happily sue any carer (or their care agency) that refused to be vaccinated or sent an unvaccinated person to an elderly relatives home and they contracted covid.

I think BungleandGeorge makes a really interesting point. What about a care home resident who refuses the vaccine?

Goes without saying they're really selfish and shouldn't mix with caring decent people but for those of you who think it's easy to sack care staff, what will you do with the resident? Are they going to lose their home if they refuse?

FixTheBone, when they pay care staff the same salary as you the problem will be solved as there really will be staff waiting to step into the shoes of all the ones that are fired.

Until then all this huffing and puffing and holding care staff to a higher standard than other workers is just a performance. You cannot alter reality with indignation.(This para is not aimed at you FTB, but all those selfless previous posters)

It’s not an awful lot different from somebody who refuses a vaccine and then goes and sits next to someone in the cinema for 3 hours, or on a 6 hour train journey and infects somebody vulnerable.

If people don't want to take the risk of sitting next to an unvaccinated person on a train or in a cinema, they can choose not to travel on a train or go to a cinema. Residents in care homes don't have that choice.

As several pp have said, in some healthcare roles certain vaccinations are already required. Why shouldn't the covid vaccination be added to the list of required vaccinations?

I was a renal nurse and was required to have the Hep B vaccine like Alfaix was in dentistry. Thank God for the vaccine and I can't understand anyone not wanting it, particularly if working in healthcare.

I heard a lady in her 70s who is a carer in people’s homes on Any Answers last weekend, she’s been in the role for many years.

She was of the certain belief that it was her duty to do all that she could to protect the people she assisted. She suggested that if you weren’t willing to put their interests first, then caring roles were probably not the jobs for you.

Doctors, medical students, lab technicians in paths labs amongst others have to have various jabs to practice their work.

[quote hoopmatrix]Please read this info on this link and you will find out all you need to know with regards to this matter of V. at work. Employers don't have the right to ask you to do this. Good luck.

uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5fa5866942937a4d73918723/6034d75d99ca064068db36c5_UKMFA_L4L_Workers_Union-Employers_Vaccine_Open_Letter.pdf[/quote]
That is the ravings of a random bunch of wahoos and not authoritative in any way.

@hoopmatrix I’m an employer lawyer and fwiw that letter is utter bollocks.

This issue of compulsory vaccination is under much debate at the moment. Of course it’s not been the subject of any ruling in the courts yet but I think for those working in close contact with vulnerable people, provided the employer follows a fair process (ie discussing concerns with the individual and taking into account any mitigating factors), I think they would have a very good argument for insisting staff are vaccinated, whether existing or newly recruited staff.

I think if he doesn't want the vaccine he needs to get a different job

Could he have an antibody test? He may already be immune. Proof of immunity might be enough?

I’m a health care professional in a front line role and know quite a few colleagues ( inc Drs) that have refused the vaccines for various reasons. It’s too new, they don’t won’t it unless it is spaced out as recommended by the manufacturer, waiting for a certain one etc etc. doesn’t make them anti-vaxers. I myself was on the fence about it. And I have always had the flu jab and paid for my kids to have extra jabs such as chicken pox.
It is their choice and they are well within their rights to wait or refuse.
You can still get and spread covid anyway so I don’t see the problem. Had to cover for a colleague that was sick with it the other week after she had already had her vaccine over a month earlier.

@gottakeeponmovin

I think if he doesn't want the vaccine he needs to get a different job

Health care won’t be the only employers wanting people to have the vaccine. Going forward it will be something customers will want & business will want to offer - eg all our plumbers are vaccinated & safe to go in your home. It’s everyone’s choice to have/not have the vaccine but choices come with consequences. The consequence for those who choose not to have it may be living like a second class citizen. Once everyone has been offered this I won’t feel any sympathy for those that won’t have it & are left behind.