In two weeks pupils can safely return to school..

[Regulus]

..can they fuck.

There maybe plenty of reasons why they have too but to lie that it's safe is deplorable.

‘They just have the blue masks, not the PPE they would have on a covid ward’

Pointing out (AGAIN) that unless carrying out AGPs, nurses on Covid wards and in nursing homes and community settings when caring for Covid positive patients, wear standard blue surgical masks. It’s incredibly frustrating, one year on, to see people perpetuate this myth that nurses have some sort of magical PPE that is denied to others.

@nostaples

You just don't hear the taxi drivers, hairdressers, care workers, supermarket workers or doctors or nurses whining on with all this language of sacrifice and 'front line' as if they are personally saving the world.

There's an awful snobbery to it as well.

Why aren't checkout staff 'on the front line' and sacrificing themsleves for 'your children and families' but teachers are? Why are teachers militant about theif health and safety but they never mention the bus drivers who get the kids to school or the office staff who've probably been working through?

I work in a factory and we are forgotten about entirely. People go on about "staying home" and "shopping online", well your online shopping isn't made by fairies. Us who work in production and manufacturing still have to go out to work to make sure you get your online shopping.

And anyone who thinks social distancing is easy in a factory is deluded. 20% of our workforce has caught Covid now.

The fact is though we don't have much vocal backing and because we are paid peanuts we can't afford to join unions. Personally I'm happy to go to work as a young healthy person but if I wasn't, my only option would be to quit. If I refused to go in, I wouldn't get paid.

It's not about keeping kids safe from a virus, it's safer now for the NHS. That's why

The vast majority of us are 'safe' anyway. Time
For everyone to clam down. If you don't want to send your kid back, keep them at home for longer

The elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated. The nhs is back to its normal (on its knees) state

How we gonna know of the vaccine works until we get out and mingle again

@Multicover

‘They just have the blue masks, not the PPE they would have on a covid ward’

Pointing out (AGAIN) that unless carrying out AGPs, nurses on Covid wards and in nursing homes and community settings when caring for Covid positive patients, wear standard blue surgical masks. It’s incredibly frustrating, one year on, to see people perpetuate this myth that nurses have some sort of magical PPE that is denied to others.

Sorry @Multicover, I didn't realise. It would piss me off too so I am glad I know so I won't make that mistake again. Sorry

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown

I'm going back to work now purely to make sure that no child I teach will ever, ever write the "word" simples

❤️❤️❤️😂😂👍

Wax, no one anywhere should feel unsafe.

@SpringisSpinning

Wax, no one anywhere should feel unsafe.

The reality is, that nothing and no-one can keep everyone safe from a virus.

Imagine how funeral directors feel, going into a home where a person has died from covid, and having to touch and remove the body, knowing that the viral load on that person and in the air will be sky high.

Do you expect that no-one should collect the deceased because it's inherently unsafe?

I except every boss to break their necks to pull out every single feasible stop to make sure their staff are safe, as a basic duty of care.

@SpringisSpinning

I except every boss to break their necks to pull out every single feasible stop to make sure their staff are safe, as a basic duty of care.

They can never make sure.

@Waxonwaxoff0 *The fact is though we don't have much vocal backing and because we are paid peanuts we can't afford to join unions.

That is

@SpringisSpinning

I except every boss to break their necks to pull out every single feasible stop to make sure their staff are safe, as a basic duty of care.

And that would be great IF there were never any conflicting needs between staff, the people they work with and the locations of work.

The reality is that there ARE conflicts, so data as to what is least damaging on a population level, has to be followed.

In the funeral director example, the risks inherent with leaving a body to decay in a home, sadly outweigh the possible risks to the funeral director of catching covid.

The need to keep patients safe and prevent them from harming themselves outweighs the risk to MH nurses of catching covid. It's a case of prioritising definite risk over possible risk.

I feel for teachers who are CV and can totally understand why they feel they can't return at the moment. But on a population level, the risks to the kids of not being in school are statistically far higher than the possible risks to teaching staff. All the government's scientific advisors have said so.

Yes, there will be individuals for whom this isn't the case, but decisions need to be based on population-level risk.

Many teachers didn't want to go back until they could wear masks and have regular testing. That will now happen. No manager can change the school building to make it safer. We have to work with what we have got. And sadly, that will always include an element of risk, because that is the real world when it comes to viruses.

Thank you @Waxonwaxoff0 to all the factory workers out there. Indeed you are right they have been forgotten and are at a very high risk of catching and many have died. More than most professionals but some professionals shout very loud, get full pay if they don't work. However, speaking to friends in RL (via sm etc) there are some that have not come through this pandemic well. Some have and others have shown themselves in a poor light. I think many realise that.

Hopefully it will get better for everyone going forward.

@Multicover

I know, I feel for you. The assumption that one group of workers is so very hard done by and everyone else has been safe with their ppe has been perpetuated on MN by a small minority. Those people live in a bubble and seem 100% self absorbed. The majority realise that many, many have suffered.

@Gerberageri

Indeed, you are right but you won't find some ever acknowledging that no matter what evidence is presented.

@SpringisSpinning

Wax, no one anywhere should feel unsafe.

Of course, but if the only other option is to quit and not have a wage coming in people just have to crack on.

@Anna12345678910

Thank you *@Waxonwaxoff0* to all the factory workers out there. Indeed you are right they have been forgotten and are at a very high risk of catching and many have died. More than most professionals but some professionals shout very loud, get full pay if they don't work. However, speaking to friends in RL (via sm etc) there are some that have not come through this pandemic well. Some have and others have shown themselves in a poor light. I think many realise that.

Hopefully it will get better for everyone going forward.

Thank you. It's nice just to be appreciated!

@waxonwaxoff0 for you. It must suck to hear people with equal or less risk, who earn far more, banging on that they are most at risk.

I am with SirChing on this and there are risks every day to teachers and everyone anyway. it is about balancing risks and damage done if children don't go back to school.. We have about 1.7m unemployed (we had 3m in 1982 when I graduated - the worst then for 50 years) but the 1.7m is likely to grow. We are in a very difficult situation and right from day 1 hard choices had to be made.

I am glad masks in secondary schools will just be advisory utnil 21 June or whatever D day is, as I don't think teenagers should have to wear them in the classroom even if they have no medical reason not to wear them and even if they do not suffer "extreme distress" by wearing them, but let us wait to see what the legislation says and what head teachers decide. I do see the guidance says no child should be forced to wear a mask so that at least is encouraging.

@Waxonwaxoff0

I imagine in a large factory there are a high number of CEV and CV and people over 50, of course in many a high number of men. Hopefully, many of those are now being vaccinated which will help others too.
If you or any of your fellow workers fall into these categories or are carers to other family relatives make sure you get the right place in the vaccine queue.

[quote SirChing]@waxonwaxoff0 for you. It must suck to hear people with equal or less risk, who earn far more, banging on that they are most at risk.[/quote]
Thank you the last thing I want is to turn into a "who has it worse" competition but it does grate when people who have never set foot in my workplace tell me that it's safer than other workplaces. When you work in a factory there's absolutely no option to work from home either.

Where we live teachers are at the top of the salary tree. Many people work on farms, lorry drivers, care homes etc so teachers are amongst the best paid. It's just that I have seen some on MN say they did not go into teaching for the money.. average salary where we live us about 15k per annum..

[quote Anna12345678910]@Waxonwaxoff0

I imagine in a large factory there are a high number of CEV and CV and people over 50, of course in many a high number of men. Hopefully, many of those are now being vaccinated which will help others too.
If you or any of your fellow workers fall into these categories or are carers to other family relatives make sure you get the right place in the vaccine queue.[/quote]
Yes, a high number of men over 50! We had multiple positive Covid cases in January, it seems to have calmed down now thankfully and there are a few staff members who will be getting the vaccine soon. I'm 30 and healthy so none for me for a while!

Nowhere is 100% safe , didn't he say right at the beginning we have to accept we won't have zero covid.
I pointed out factory workers being in crowded spaces as well and many jobs will be facing a risk, when I go to the shops its a risk, if when restaurants open and I go it will be a risk. When my own kids go back to a school , they will risk bringing it back to me , so a risk.
The alternative is we stay locked up for many many more months

Infection rate is still high 3 figures/100000 here so think its too soon to be an all or nothing..
If at all would have been happier with staggered..ds school lucky minimal isolation but around us bubbles were bursting all over the place....

I am minded to cautiously welcome the return to full reopening of English primary schools on 8 March 2021. This is providing the scientific Covid infections, mutations, fatalities, hospitalisation, long Covid sufferers data is on a downwards tend and vaccination is on an upwards trend. Plus no challenging new evolving mutations to defeat the vaccines efficacy. I will elect to send my young child back in. However as soon as I sense anyone slightly ill irrespective of infectious illness, I will pull my child out. If the current data suggests we are on the right path and on balance of risks versus benefits I will opt for the benefits of traditional in person schooling. This is a very delicate balance as we can easily revert to more super spreading and yet another customary u turn and next open and close cycle(s) with more lives and livelihoods lost. It's all about living with and not zero Covid. Sadly more will be loss but that is how badly we as a nation have been given our reactionary delayed and u turning unsure political leadership plus significant to note a general population of British entitlementists who are super opinionated with some initially anti masks stupidity and now anti vaxxers nonsensical. We (a minority) are seemingly recklessly selfishly tolerant of ultra high comparative fatalities as some personally opt for more self short sighted non sustainable comfort than accepting a degree of challenge to per pandemic personal freedoms and liberties for the mutual good of society. Many sighting unbearable mental challenge etc. We also have a population unlike many globally is not as scared of dangers including death and hence along with "free" at point of use healthcare (when available) is blasé and feel super duper entitled and do our own thing including ignoring lockdown or mask rules etc. If the primary schools do not up their Covid risk mitigation game then the disease will perpetuate. I expect some sensible use of masks especially the older primary children who like those overseas are known to be human vectors and silently spreading in many cases.