In two weeks pupils can safely return to school..

[Regulus]

..can they fuck.

There maybe plenty of reasons why they have too but to lie that it's safe is deplorable.

the problem with the adage of follow the science and the scientists is that Newton's third law is quite appropriate here

"for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction"

which is I think definitely true of Coronavirus (and actually the problem with data/statistics as a whole). For every article that claims one thing there is another which says something very different.

Herecomesthesun that all seems pretty much what has been rehashed here over and over again with the end result of coming out and saying that masks for Primary and blended learning for Secondary is contentious. And not far from happening (apart from those two mentioned here).

Interesting readhere and very clear I am once again baffled, however as to why the scientists believe there is physical distancing in schools or on transport to and from school.

@Quartz2208

the problem with the adage of follow the science and the scientists is that Newton's third law is quite appropriate here

"for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction"

which is I think definitely true of Coronavirus (and actually the problem with data/statistics as a whole). For every article that claims one thing there is another which says something very different.

Herecomesthesun that all seems pretty much what has been rehashed here over and over again with the end result of coming out and saying that masks for Primary and blended learning for Secondary is contentious. And not far from happening (apart from those two mentioned here).

More to the point for every astute careful proactive person there is an equally opposite Covidiot at the other extreme who is not only a non believer but is essentially selfishly recklessly causing a one person mutating super spreading chain by being ignorant or dismissing agreed risk mitigation science. It takes one Covid super spreader to start a pandemic. Fortunately these cohorts are not equal as most are Covid aware and tend to appreciate the added mutual reassurance of others in the community following the rules based on proven science including hands, face, space and trace.

@MmeLaraque

Well, since I follow the science, and the scientists, I can cite them here.

"Project Herd Immunity" is what they're calling this. Including Prof Alice Roberts, and the other scientists I follow and take notice of.

Yesterday, Boris Johnson spoke to Andrew Marr saying that scientists had told him schools were very, very, very safe. On this evening’s PM on radio 4, John Edmunds - who is on SAGE - said “over the autumn the most important route of infections into the home was schoolchildren”.
7:22 PM · Jan 4, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

"7 in 10 infections have been from kids contracting covid and passing it to the adults at home. Yet parents are to be fined for *not sending their children into school?" And many of you here support that? The whole thing is utterly fucked up.

The Tories are using their modus operandi on a pandemic: their rules and treatment of those in the welfare system is being applied to a pandemic. They don't *care how many people end up seriously ill or dead from this, they just want their drones back at work, making money for them. They don't give a flying fuck about children, and they certainly don't care about any of you.

It's horrendous. It really is.

There's some very interesting reading here: 22 tweets, some with links in them. twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1364019581971558401

I'm not going to engage further with those who refuse to mask up. No one is immune. No one.

Agree with a lot of this.

If people are happy to send their kids into this they are fine but we all need to be clear about what we are doing.

Naturally and obviously in the middle of highly contagious and fast mutating pandemic - any large over crowded multiple household indoor prolonged duration daily face to face setting cannot be technically safe!

It is not safe but is it too dangerous or how unsafe would this be? That is where scientifically agreed health and safety risk mitigation comes in. In a unsafe environment- risk mitigation measures help. Without any risk mitigation then the unsafe environment will be less safe or simply more dangerous.

If this setting is perfectly safe then no health and safety risk mitigation will be required.

The dangers of in person mass mixing schooling needs to be weighed in balance against the merits of educational and children peer learning development benefits. What is the equilibrium balance point? Risks versus benefits.

I can't fathom why it's so hard to put down some strict lines here. Mask wearing, add in some extra breaks! Windows open, hygienic mask etticute video to be rolled out across eduction. Why? So easy and simple and send those home who have three strikes.

@SpringisSpinning

You forget that this is world beating British entitlement exceptionalism! We Brits have a world beating per capita Covid fatalities, long Covid and infections because Brits will not (all) follow mutually and community minded health and safety science. Many rather falsely (undiagnosed) claim mask exemption etc and many cannot measure a one metre let alone two meters in a supermarket queue etc. Plus apparently many don't appreciate proactive asymptomatic periodic testing because of momentary slight "invasive" discomfort. Possibly these same people never seek medical healthcare treatments or need dentistry etc.

Even my specialist said schools are a breeding ground for germs and obviously really increases the risk for parents of catching it especially in primary schools. Parents of primary school children should at least have the choice of continuing as they are if their children are engaging in the work as they'd be preparing home learning for those self isolating anyway and there's normally one child off ill out of a class. Plus this would reduce the numbers in and make it easier for teachers to manage and reduce the risk somewhat.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia I disagree with the mask statement at least around here. The amount of abuse you get even puts people who are exempt from not wearing one so I think it's probably a minority. I know from personal experience. Even got stick for pulling mine off because of a bad asthma attack. i am trying but keep having take it off and some days can't at all because it's that bad and yes I do wear an exemption card.

@wildchild554

Even my specialist said schools are a breeding ground for germs and obviously really increases the risk for parents of catching it especially in primary schools. Parents of primary school children should at least have the choice of continuing as they are if their children are engaging in the work as they'd be preparing home learning for those self isolating anyway and there's normally one child off ill out of a class. Plus this would reduce the numbers in and make it easier for teachers to manage and reduce the risk somewhat.

And of course it also really increases the risk of teachers catching it - 30-odd times (100-odd times for secondary) the chances of a parent catching it.

@MuddyWalks yep that too and would soon spread though the class and once it gets to the adults anyone they're in contact with work relatives etc and then siblings in other classes who then pass it to their classmates to spread it further.

We all know schools are not that safe as they are forever open then subsequently closed or partially closed. It's just a new pandemic mismanagement yo yo "methodology" but this time some of the adults in the room may have some vaccination protection and likely more favourable spring weather so perhaps some ventilation. If it's safe it will always be fully open and no one needs to test, wear a mask etc as per pre pandemic - remember those days with just chickenpox within class and nothing that will potentially kill unlike pandemic times!

@TheKeatingFive

The ‘everyone repeat the year’ idea has been debated as nauseum on here. There are so many problems with it, I can hardly fathom that some are still beating this drum.

It is quite obviously not going to happen.

Totally agree.

"And of course it also really increases the risk of teachers catching it - 30-odd times (100-odd times for secondary) the chances of a parent catching it."

Source?

Plan C or plan D to repeat a school teaching year sounds idealistic but what happens once again when the next full reopening of all schools is again unsustainable as more disease will spread and mutate so another lockdown closed cycle of isolation remote schooling?

Should plan B not be trying to make schooling safer with all serious helpful scientific agreed best practice implemented including possibly staggering alternate half days as no extra personal breathing space (Nightingale schools) with staff face to face time duration rotas and all wearing masks surgeons wear for hours on end doing highly concentrated work (or at least clear plastic face shields for those disabled). Perhaps local schools for local families to minimise the potential exposure to Covid on long distance cross town shared high throughput mass public transportation in poorly ventilated and packed hop on hop off Covid incubator tag roulette. The longer the commute (in towns and cities not countryside) the more schools next door passed and the longer time duration for extra people mixing to ensure more potential Covid exposure.

Some head of the school and colleges had been on bbc this am, he said the pupils will sit in splendid isolation whilst they wait for their test results.

I'm volunteer for dd school and they won't be isolated at all. Infact they all come in, via public transport or walking in groups etc. Then they have to wait in their classroom unitil we can get them in for their testing slot.

Then they come to testing place which is actually well run and set up but wait together for the results.

Wow, so couldn't potentially already have spread it first?! Has anyone flagged this up with the school?

@SpringisSpinning so? The pupils were doing that without testing anyway. The whole point of it is to catch it earlier before it rips through schools. Without testing you are relying on parents to be on the ball and everyone knows how well that ends up sometimes!

the school seem aware but due to all the constraints there is nothing they can do.
just to add there is also confusion among staff re testing, saying for instance, why should I be tested when I have no symptoms, if I do I will go to x testing site near where I live...

When you get tested at a mass testing centre you don't need to isolate whilst your results come through (which is usually within the hour anyway) so presumably the same principle applies here.
There isn't the time or space to isolate every pupil after every test whilst waiting for a result they would never get through them all.
Dont forget these children have no symptoms, I know many dc are symptomsless but we cant keep them all isolated on the off chance they are positive, some normality needs to resume.

Ostryga

catch it before it rips through schools and if that child - carrying the highly contagious south afrcian variant is being held for a few hours in a normal classroom, chatting , spreading and then goes to test and the test may or MAY NOT pick up their virus....but they have already infected their peers what do you think will happen then?
I KNOW Of another school in the area for instance is staggering the return to lesson numbers at the testing site - the dc are brought in specifically to test then go home. There will still be 200 plus to manage but at least they wont all be mixing for hours before hand in a classroom? They test then go home and if its clear they come back to start proper the next day which seems 100 % more sensible to me.

DDs school is starting testing on Thursday/Friday for year 10+ with an hour window for classes and remain outside whilst waiting. DD is having her first test on Sat 13 (year 7) to start 15th

Her school have always done well and only had 4 bubbles burst in a south London borough

@springisSpinning my ds secondary school is also doing that before school returns however they will have subsequent regular tests following on from that once they have returned. Theres no other option but to return pupils to the classroom after testing. Also presumably they'll be in a classroom before the test too, they can't possibly test every single pupil before lessons start and keep them all apart before and after it's not practical

At our school all pupils will be tested next week, so a week before school starts. They have different time slots throughout the week, and are to be isolated during the testing.