In two weeks pupils can safely return to school..

[Regulus]

..can they fuck.

There maybe plenty of reasons why they have too but to lie that it's safe is deplorable.

You're being very snippy and have been whataboutering for quite a while. Nice.

I find this whole crisis has focused on medical vulnerability and ignored all the other kinds. Plenty are suffering in different ways.

@Myothercarisalsoshit I was certainly not intending to be unpleasant. I am genuine. I think @Watchingbehindmyhands is looking for support and needs it and I don't think this is the best place for her to get it.

@Watching I do hear you. Honestly. And I really do feel for you.

It doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

Please get some sleep. Look after yourself. This is one battle you don't have to have.

Also happy to return to work. I think it would be sensible to have a staggered entrance though as in N Ireland and Scotland, a year group at a time so that testing can be efficiently managed and to give kids and teachers time to adjust.

Sezzi, why did you quote Cherry's question, as you certainly haven't answered it?

Of course teachers will be pleased to see the children! I don’t think anyone on this thread has said otherwise? Doesn’t make it a good idea for older teachers or vulnerable children or families though does it?

public transport also an area where a large group of children will be together, a phased return would manage that (a bit) too

I've been seeing the children every day, the joys of teams calls

@sezzibaybee thank you. This has made me appreciate the truly brilliant teachers even more. We've been let down by school leadership but the best teachers find a way to be there for the kids and we can't wait to send out kids back. Our school haven't had a covid case and I think on the whole parents are 100% supportive or any rules and measures to keep each other safe. It's worth it.

I get it, truly brilliant = no worries about catching covid?
My own worries about this have meant I've ensured your dc don't forget to sanitise their hands, wear their masks and ventilate the fuck out of the classroom between classes. I teach live and mark every piece of work given to me.
But if I think an all-in return is foolhardy I'm not a brilliant teacher, got it.

Over 50 Sezzi you?

@mumsneedwine

The chart you posted has been taken completely out of context. This is the full report from which it is taken:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19infectionsinthecommunityinengland/latest

In particular:

• You haven't include the paragraph right above the chart that says "Brackets indicate occupations that are unlikely to have evidence of difference in the probability of people testing positive compared to many other occupations in the same bracket."
• The error bars are huge and the absolute percentages are small. Look how much the error bars overlap. The statistical significance of this data is very slim - which is essentially what the paragraph you cropped off means.
• The very first paragraph of the report states: "This analysis covers the period from 1 September 2020 to 7 January 2021. During this period of time, there was a national lockdown in England between 5 November and 1 December 2020 and varying local tier restrictions in place; there was also a significant rise in the positivity rate across the country, including that related to the new variant. This analysis should be understood in that context as opposed to the reducing prevalence currently being experienced."

[quote nostaples]@Watchingbehindmyhands I've tried sympathy and it's not really got me anywhere. I'm wondering if there might be other threads where you could get the sort of support you might be looking for or a better place to vent about your personal circumstances. Of course, it's absolutely fine to stay and do that here, I just think it's really important to point out that other teachers don't feel the same way as you do (even though they might also be going through shit but apparently are 'completely clueless about everything' because only your problems really matter).[/quote]
Perhaps stop going on at her and let her say what she wants without you saying yeah but... To everything. I get you may not share her opinions but God sake let her have them. I used to be dismissive of the way people found mumsnet hard going but recently I have seen people just being cruel. It's like it's some awful competition to see who can be harshest. Now I know I'm a hypocrite at times but I don't think I would ever just keep on at a poster.

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown
Me neither! Oh well! 25 years experience and top of scale but still shit because we don’t sugar coat it? I’ll try and sleep tonight.
And yes ... JG is a great film for us blues!

@Viciouslybashed that's not fair. She's perfectly entitled to her opinions. I said repeatedly that I sympathise with her personal circumstances. But actually I'm allowed to have opinions too. And while I sympathise with her, I don't agree with her. I've actually been very courteous whereas she said I know nothing. I don't agree that her problems or opinions trump others. I also think a distinction needs to be made between personal circumstances of individual teachers and what is generally and factually true of teachers and schools.

'I get it, truly brilliant = no worries about catching covid?
My own worries about this have meant I've ensured your dc don't forget to sanitise their hands, wear their masks and ventilate the fuck out of the classroom between classes. I teach live and mark every piece of work given to me.
But if I think an all-in return is foolhardy I'm not a brilliant teacher, got it.'

Oh and more of the language of martytdom. It doesn't do teachers any favours.

Once again, WE ARE AT NO MORE RISK OF GETTING COVID (LET ALONE SUFFERING HARM FROM IT) THAN ANY OTHER JOB.

@TheKeatingFive

Many senior positions come with a very attractive salary package including decent pension contributions, healthcare, life insurance etc

Not many come with the kind of pension contributions that build up an equivalent pot to a decent public sector defined benefit. Unfortunately.

Many of them are more senior positions. A lot of positions are better paid than teaching for equivalent training etc and you can choose how to invest your money. Public sector pensions are no longer final salary, the retirement age is 68 (or whatever state pension age rises to) and the contributions are 10-15% of gross salary for most professions. It’s no longer an amazing deal but not bad I grant you. No other bonuses, life insurance etc. I just think it makes no sense to moan about what other people get as a salary, if you want that then work towards it, there are jobs freely available in the sector! (I am not a teacher and wouldn’t enjoy that job so will be going without the pension)

If any employee feels that are put at risk by their employer they have a right to raise that. I honestly don’t think we should be encouraging the loss of workers rights. Your employer should be doing a risk assessment. If you are at risk plumb your figures into the new covid risk calculator, if you come out as a very high risk ask your employer what they are doing to protect you. I know many schools have introduced measures for those who are the most vulnerable. I can’t blame people for being scared, it’s been drummed into us what a huge risk we’re all at but fortunately it turns out most of us aren’t. We don’t all agree with vaccination priority or full school opening etc but it is what it is

You just don't hear the taxi drivers, hairdressers, care workers, supermarket workers or doctors or nurses whining on with all this language of sacrifice and 'front line' as if they are personally saving the world.

There's an awful snobbery to it as well.

Why aren't checkout staff 'on the front line' and sacrificing themsleves for 'your children and families' but teachers are? Why are teachers militant about theif health and safety but they never mention the bus drivers who get the kids to school or the office staff who've probably been working through?

I can completely understand why any vulnerable unvaccinated teachers don’t want to return to work but it really does wind me up that they think they’re the only profession that is vulnerable. Supermarket staff are on terrible wages and have one of the highest death rates, far higher than teachers and yet you don’t hear them demanding the vaccine first.

If you really want to use the language of sacrifice and martytdom then it's more relevant to look at mortality figures. Teachers don't even feature. Social care workers and men in particular are way up at the top. They don't have the opportunity to work from home. And you just don't hear them whining in the same way.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/top-10-jobs-most-risk-23378923

Male bus drivers and taxi drivers also seem pretty high risk and yet the only people I ever see that moan about going back to work and risking themselves like the rest of us have been this entire time is teachers.

@nostaples absolutely. Especially with all the "supermarkets have screens' nonsense. Yes they have screens, but you know what else they have? Thousands of people a day going in, in all states of health and cleanliness without knowing who they are or whether they tested positive that morning, coughing and touching up and down the aisles for all those germs and aerosols to circulate in a huge room with no windows. All for the princely sum of £9 an hour and no holiday at Christmas. No-one has even really restricted supermarkets, they open normal hours and people can go as often as they want for pretty much no reason at all.

Not only do teachers not stand up for them, they tell them they have it better! Disgraceful.

Or a teacher told me on here yesterday that nowhere else do you get 30 people sat closely together. They've obviously never been anywhere near a factor production line or call centre. 30 would be very small.

@nostaples and @Psychobobble thank you for being some of the only ones to either take the time to or have the ability to understand statistics and data. The first few posts on this are incredibly misleading.
I am a frontline healthcare worker who had confirmed covid back in first wave before there was enough PPE for it to be made mandatory in work. For me was a heavy cold, fatigue, loss of taste and smell and some now resolved breathlessness. Husband also had it, (likely our 7 yo also but she had no symptoms). I (and many of my colleagues) was a typical case- sadly as we know many others were much worse.
Your point about mitigating risk was well made @nostaples. The case mentioned of a healthy 43 yr old dying is tragic yes, but in terms of numbers testing positive- incredibly rare. How many people would refuse to get on a plane just in case it crashes, or drive on the motorway in bad weather? It is about accepting a level of risk- I understood and accepted my risk and turned up for work everyday to do my vocation.
My husband is SE in public events has not worked for over a year and is not likely to for some time yet. My young daughter's mental health has noticeably declined -school have spoken to me about this- as a direct result of not being in school. The public must accept a certain level of risk and a continuing (but hopefully smaller) number of sadly (un?)avoidable deaths.
I know schools are still not 100% safe, nowhere is or will ever be. But children much worse off than mine are at real risk if this carries on.
Teachers need to try and be pragmatic and realistic about the risk they are actually exposed to in work- and their likelihood of serious illness. I would expect a teacher not willing to return to work to also not fly anywhere/go to a restaurant/bar/see extended family or even send their own children back to school? Or do they accept those particular exposures to potentially increased risk?

I do sympathise with CV teachers feeling unsafe to go to work, and think they should be allowed to work from home teaching isolating kids remotely, where possible.

BUT, I see my old MH nurse colleagues looking after 30 patients in a closed ward, with Windows that don't open far for safety reasons. They just have the blue masks, not the PPE they would have on a covid ward, and are being spat at, restraining patients, nursing patients within arms length, every single day.

Many of those are CV and have only very recently had their vaccine. Prior to that, whole wards of patients and staff were catching covid.

No One is saying teachers aren't at some risk. We are saying that the exceptionalist thinking, with demands for vaccines ahead of clinical schedule, and for parents to take action on teacher's behalf (like what exactly?) Is wrong.

Teachers as a profession can hand in their Section 44 and No One dies as a consequence. The nurses, doctors and care staff who have worked WITHOUT the proper PPE teachers think they have, can't refuse to work without people dying.

The exceptionalism, and claiming to know exactly what risks other professions are taking, and how they aren't as bad as teaching, is what smacks of disproportionate victimhood and annoys.