I genuinely don't get why people are so offended by small rule breaks at this point

[Flower234]

I'm not trying to be goady and this is not a thread about a thread, but inspired by admittedly

So basically, 1/3 or there abouts (maybe more?) have had first vaccine which we now KNOW reduces transmission. Everything is trending downwards. We've been doing this for a year- Many of us are financially, mentally and emotionally drained, but things are looking up. It's safer than it's been in a while, and it's time to consider 'opening up. I'm not anti-lockdown, but I am pro proportionate covid restrictions with the minimum restrictions to liberty necessary.

That said, how do some people genuinely take time out of their day to have a go at people for the tiniest rule breaks which will make NO impact or very little impact on transmission?

Like a single person going to a second home, someone meeting two people outside instead of one, someone driving an hour to meet a partner they haven't seen in four months for a walk... All genuine examples I've seen people go irate over

It scares me how quickly people will cite "the rules," even if they are nonsensical. Some of my 'friends' would scream at me for meeting two people outside today but if the gov said you could meet thirty people indoors tomorrow legally, would go to a house party no question.

I suppose my question is does anyone else feel like people use "because the government made it a rule" as a reason to control and rebuke others, without any aspect of critical thinking or actual science? They're not scared of covid- They don't care about transmission. They just like the powertrip.

Does anyone else feel they know a lot of people like this?

A fifth to a quarter have had the first vaccine

Much fewer have got 21 days past first dose - so really it's a waiting game until immunity (to death) kicks in

We just don't have the numbers yet 🤷‍♀️

To add more context- At this point, I think non-essential retail needs to be open and I think people should be able to meet in gardens now. I also think the "stay at home"
part needs to be lifted so people can go to the beach for the day without worrying as it's not "exercise."

Maybe it is because people are still catching it despite following the rules. I followed the rules and was generally very careful. Despite this I managed to catch it having left the house once for a 20 minute trip to pick up some groceries. I've been quite ill (not had a mild version) for a number of weeks now and it's not showing any signs of going away.

Laurie- I believe 8/9 million of the most vulnerable are past the three weeks but that's from memory. That should have a heavy impact on deaths soon, especially after data from Israel vaccinations seems to be positive. But also I agree we can't just open everything at once

When I say I left the house once, I mean I left it once in a 4, nearly 5 week period.

ok- I'm sorry you're still not feeling great. I've had covid and felt awful for about a week. I had bad flu a few years ago which also made me feel ill for two months after so I was expecting covid to be worse but I was lucky. I hope you start to feel better soon

I agree completely. I have found the lack of critical thinking really alarming. I think it comes from a place of fear from most of the people I know. I just keep quiet whilst they are freaking out and try to be tolerant of the hysteria - I find it tricky though!!

Completely agree OP.

It's a total farce. People can undertake their own risk assessments. It's one of the reasons that there's more traffic this time than lockdown 1. People know that driving for a walk alone is close to zero risk.

I went to the supermarket once a week during lockdown 1. Now I know that supermarkets aren't huge hotbeds of disease so I go all the time (that, and I've had close contact with covid, didn't get it and I'm 3 weeks post first jab). People are doing such risk assessments all the time.

@LaurieFairyCake

A fifth to a quarter have had the first vaccine

Much fewer have got 21 days past first dose - so really it's a waiting game until immunity (to death) kicks in

We just don't have the numbers yet 🤷‍♀️

I thought the stats yesterday were up to nearly a third of adults having had a first dose and over 600k have had a second dose.

At say 400k per day around half of those vaccinated must be passed 21 days now if my mental maths is correct

To me that's a pretty good amount of protection against already in the population.

Because we all have different interpretations of what a small rule break is.

Your friends would really scream at you for meeting two people outside? Are you sure you're not exaggerating how you think they'd react?

I don’t care anymore. I’m doing as I please.

I’m back at work without PPE soon as a teacher and the government don’t think I need to social distance, stay home or wear masks. The government deem it perfectly safe for me to mix with hundreds of teens everyday ... why would I break my neck to follow the rules and not see the people I actually want to see?

I’m not a disposable robot. I’m not just going to put myself at risk when the government says it’s OK. So I’m looking at it differently....when I return to school (and right now I can’t wait), I will also return to as much of a normal life as I can get without shops etc being open.

If I’m ok to be around all those kids day in day out; then it’s perfectly fine for me to have my sister and her family over for dinner etc.

I know what you mean. I saw something on FB yesterday that was all about "don't go to the beach in Essex this weekend, even if the weather is nice"....

Surely last year proved that going to the beach didn't have any impact whatsoever on the transmission of the virus? Let alone now that a significant proportion of those at risk are protected? We've now jabbed 17 million people - so surely at least 10m of those now have the full 3 week protection?

Because on an individual level these might 'make no difference' but if everyone is doing the same it does

I do agree op - esp if as you say they'd go to a house party with lots of people if it was allowed tomorrow. I wouldn't do that as I don't think it would be safe.

Similar to joe people shrieked about the Gov 'allowing' people to mix at Christmas. No one could fail to be aware of the risks around mixing indoors and so if they chose to go ahead there's an element of personal responsibility surely? Lots of things are not illegal which I think are too risky so I don't do them.

@Flower234

To add more context- At this point, I think non-essential retail needs to be open and I think people should be able to meet in gardens now. I also think the "stay at home" part needs to be lifted so people can go to the beach for the day without worrying as it's not "exercise."

That's ok if that is what you think - but you are of a very different mindset to any scientists, epidemiologists or public health experts I have heard recently.

Do you have a lot of frontline or reserch experience in virology or similar that would make your view especially valuable?

You've got friends that "scream" at you? Are you sure? Sounds dramatic

Completely depends on your own personal situation doesn't it? If you know someone who has been very ill or died from Covid, if you have elderly vulnerable relatives or know people ECV and shielding, waiting for this to be over you would be understandably sensitive to rule breaking however 'nonsensical' others think they are. I think saying they are 'offended' is very unfair.

Some of my 'friends' would scream at me. Screaming at friends is not normal so I would be reviewing my friendship group if that was the case.

But ultimately you personally need to do whatever is necessary to keep yourself and your loved ones safe, and keep your beak out of other people's rule breaks unless they directly affect you.

I don't have a go at people. However, I suspect that people do in part because everyone would like to meet family/friends/travel non-locally, but most people aren't ... because collectively it's the right thing to do.

People that are making these rule breaks are undoubtedly having a much nicer time of things than those who are sticking to the law all the time. It's hard to struggle day after day, and see other people around you not bothering for no particular reasons, other than the ones that everyone has, and being much better off as a result of this. And as people see others breaking the rules, they'll think it's ok for them to do it too ... and then people break bigger rules and it all spirals.

It was great when there was a "we're all in it together" mentality. Only now clearly some people are more "in it" than others.

I've stuck to the law meticulously throughout, but last week I told DD (who hasn't left the house other than to go to medical appointments since the middle of December) that she could go and sit with a friend (socially distanced) in a park. I think this probably falls into OP's category of "small rule break", but we wouldn't have done it if I hadn't seen so many people, who were already in a better position than DD, making much bigger rule breaks.

I am assuming all "small rule breaks" I am mentioning are outside + socially distanced. Even then, half the people I know won't.

My issue is that I KNOW if you give people a bit more, they take a lot. Let people meet in gardens, they meet in houses. But also from what I can see, people are doing it anyway as it's impossible to police and they know the chance of a fine is so low.

I'm not an epidemiologist, no- But even looking at epidemiologists there are so many different opinions. But whatever stance you take, lockdown fatigue is happening and there's nothing to do to combat that except have a clear game plan.

Also- yes, two of my friends did shout at me (over Zoom of course, not in person) as I met two other friends outside in the park, fully socially distanced. If I hadn't met them together, I'd have met the other the next day and there would have been no drama.

I do what I think is best (within reason, no illegal raves so far!) and I just don't mention it to people if I think they're likely to grumble! We have met up with another family so the children (all 5 and under) can play in the park. We drove there too and took sandwiches for the kids!

I went to work in my office everyday prior to January, I go to the supermarket when I want to, I've driven to Smyths to pick up toys for the kids etc My DC are at the childminder and eldest DS is returning to school on Tuesday. The only illness I've had that might have been covid was February last year, no sign of anything since. I distance, wear a mask, wash my hands etc.

I think a lot of people are anxious and it feels out of control for them more if other people are breaking the rules (if you are anxious following the rules yourself can feel like it reduces that anxiety, others breaking them can therefore increase it if you see what I mean). I have anxiety myself (although not about covid) so I can understand it. I'm very much trying to channel a live and let live approach. We are on the hone straight now and hopefully it won't matter so much soon!

Completely agree.

Alot of other countries in Europe despite being under restrictions are still allowing visitors in houses. So a french person isn't selfish for having someone over but a British person is? Just because the rules say so. It's arbitrary.

Has it now been downgraded from screaming to shouting? Over Zoom? I would be shutting my laptop TBH. Weird.

Critical thinking and making your own risk assessment only works if you are in possession and consciously take into account all information. I’m certain you and I (and the general public) are not in possession of all the data and many people select the information they consider placing more weight to data which confirms their position (e.g - the vaccine rates without stating the numbers of people in hospital which is unsustainably high despite cases going down). This is why I will listen to the scientists advice rather than th general population, and why the rules are given such weight. As pp have said you may think one person breaking small rules is fine but when the population does it, it has a big impact and once that seal is broken it generally snowballs. I don’t believe people are being controlling or on a power trip but that they recognise that other people’s actions in this situation directly impacts them and therefor they have a legitimate concern as to the actions of others (in general I couldn’t care less what choices people make, they are their own and they face the consequences, but right now it effects communities, me and my family). Having. Said that I’m still not one for reporting but yes it does irritate me more than it would and those in my sphere who break the rules I do judge and it will impact my opinion of them. I too can’t wait for it to end, we have lost out financially and struggling mentally (Christmas was very difficult in particular).

Sparklingbrook- I didn't shut the laptop, but I wish I had. I said I had to go and we haven't spoken since. I definitely feel like a lot of my friendships are now very strained- Differences are there which were not before.

My friends who got so angry haven't been impacted by lockdown, managed a luxury holiday over summer, held parties with 29 people when the legal limit was 30 (I believe this was when it was suggested two households but this was a guideline and not 'the law) and have spent most of lockdown in their large house and very large garden.

I don't resent that they've done well for themselves- But I do admittedly resent them for not understanding how my situation is different- Ie, had to move to a tiny house share, lost my job, etc... I think they're being bitter but so am I!

I believe it is what they refer to as the sieve effect, every tiny transgression is like the hole in a sieve and it is the thousands of tiny transgressions that drive the R number up and put us back into lockdown.