I genuinely don't get why people are so offended by small rule breaks at this point

[Flower234]

I'm not trying to be goady and this is not a thread about a thread, but inspired by admittedly

So basically, 1/3 or there abouts (maybe more?) have had first vaccine which we now KNOW reduces transmission. Everything is trending downwards. We've been doing this for a year- Many of us are financially, mentally and emotionally drained, but things are looking up. It's safer than it's been in a while, and it's time to consider 'opening up. I'm not anti-lockdown, but I am pro proportionate covid restrictions with the minimum restrictions to liberty necessary.

That said, how do some people genuinely take time out of their day to have a go at people for the tiniest rule breaks which will make NO impact or very little impact on transmission?

Like a single person going to a second home, someone meeting two people outside instead of one, someone driving an hour to meet a partner they haven't seen in four months for a walk... All genuine examples I've seen people go irate over

It scares me how quickly people will cite "the rules," even if they are nonsensical. Some of my 'friends' would scream at me for meeting two people outside today but if the gov said you could meet thirty people indoors tomorrow legally, would go to a house party no question.

I suppose my question is does anyone else feel like people use "because the government made it a rule" as a reason to control and rebuke others, without any aspect of critical thinking or actual science? They're not scared of covid- They don't care about transmission. They just like the powertrip.

Does anyone else feel they know a lot of people like this?

@ILookAtTheFloor

Completely agree OP.

It's a total farce. People can undertake their own risk assessments. It's one of the reasons that there's more traffic this time than lockdown 1. People know that driving for a walk alone is close to zero risk.

I went to the supermarket once a week during lockdown 1. Now I know that supermarkets aren't huge hotbeds of disease so I go all the time (that, and I've had close contact with covid, didn't get it and I'm 3 weeks post first jab). People are doing such risk assessments all the time.

Do we know that supermarkets are not hotbeds for COVID?

The rules are nonsensical and odd from the start. I’m casual friends with my 12yo daughters friends parents. Yesterday was a birthday for one of the 4 friends. So the3 others walked over to hand over presents on the drive way. There was so much emotions at them all being together we weren’t going to stop them hugging. They have been SO careful and responsible for the last year. The birthday girls mum hesitantly cashed me and said “ please don’t think I’m being an irresponsible monster but can she come into our house for cake? Just my daughter and the three girls as it’s started raining “

Of course I said yes. And three hours later when my daughter called, sounding deliriously happy and hearing her friends laughing in the back ground I knew id made the right choice. Can she have a sleep over? I’ll drop the pjs off now. I am CEV but been vaccinated. My daughters mental health is incredibly precarious and we come from a long line of people with serious mental health issues. She needed it, so did her friends.

That is my biggest rule break and I’m not sorry. Especially not if they are going to be back at school next month.

@Sittingonabench that is a exactly how I feel. Such a good analysis of the situation. Not sure I’m brave enough to always front up my feelings of rule breaking to my friends..... but internally I absolutely form an opinion of it!

Small ‘bends’ in the rules might be ok if just one or two people did it but if thousands do it then the effects are going to be much greater. It’s also down to interpretation of what a ‘small bend’ is . Also, some people can’t make sensible judgments.

@Totallyfedup1979

I don’t care anymore. I’m doing as I please.

I’m back at work without PPE soon as a teacher and the government don’t think I need to social distance, stay home or wear masks. The government deem it perfectly safe for me to mix with hundreds of teens everyday ... why would I break my neck to follow the rules and not see the people I actually want to see?

I’m not a disposable robot. I’m not just going to put myself at risk when the government says it’s OK. So I’m looking at it differently....when I return to school (and right now I can’t wait), I will also return to as much of a normal life as I can get without shops etc being open.

If I’m ok to be around all those kids day in day out; then it’s perfectly fine for me to have my sister and her family over for dinner etc.

@Totallyfedup1979 I completely understand why you feel that way. The government have not acknowledged the risk to parents. We've kept our dd at home despite me being a key worker, as my DH works from home.

But I'm sure you know that two wrongs don't make a right.

People can do what they want now as far as I’m concerned. The majority of the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated and that’s what they said they need to do . Yes I know people can still get very ill and maybe die but tbh isn’t that a risk we take every day . It’s gone on too long now I don’t think anyone knows / understands or cares now why we are in lockdown.

It was to protect the nhs next it was the vulnerable now what ? If lockdown isn’t relaxed soon I think people will stop bothering anyway .
My mum called round the other day not seen her since before Christmas but she’s had the vaccine and I’ve had it .
If you’ve had the vaccine then crack on , everyone else do what you want .

Sorry meant to write risk to TEACHERS not parents @Totallyfedup1979

It's people not following the nonsensical rules that led to the second lockdown.

I get that people are bitter, are suffering but I want to get this things truly behind us so that I can go visit my mom before she gets to the point she no longer recognises me.

Yes, I know some people like this and find it really strange. However, I've learnt that some people want to feel like they are Sticking To The Rules, and it doesn't actually matter what the so called rules are. They won't stop to question if it makes sense to act that way. And they also get twitchy if others aren't doing The Rules in the same way as them. I just try not to speak to them about things I know will rattle their rule keeping!

The second lockdown (and the UK's high death figures) did not come about because of people bending some incredibly meaningless rules (driving to exercise, meeting three people outside instead of two, drinking coffee in parks etc.). It came about because of incredibly poor infection control practices in hospitals, schools, essential workplaces and households. All of which are places where people are allowed to be.

Perhaps because there are still housebound people with no vaccine and people at high risk still yet not vaccinated so they are worried about loved ones?

If everyone chooses their own "small" rule breaks, then it's becomes easier to justify slightly bigger rule breaks. As the rule breaks get bigger, the R rates increase without the re-opening of some of the more vital things that can't reopen.

Using the meeting several people as an example, as it's been mentioned... if meeting several people in a park becomes acceptable, why not meet spaced out in a house when the weather isn't good? Then why not less distanced or more people, as it was fine the first time?

In the end, the cases will increase, hospitals will stay overwhelmed, people won't be getting vital operations, schools won't open, businesses won't open causing more financial hardship...

Instead of saying you'll either meet them together instead of on consecutive days, why not a week apart to actively try to reduce the risks? If everyone did that (especially, but not exclusively, business owners who have staff in offices who could work from home) the cases would reduce quicker making lockdown end quicker.

People can't be trusted to make the best decision for the population as a whole, which is why the government have had to step in. The government seem to prefer everyone making the best decision for themselves, but have seen that doesn't work.

But you have to question the rules .
My dm still works has had the vaccine but still has to go to work she’s a cleaner and cleaning a empty building as the staff wfh . She’s had to work throughout get public transport to work . It’s madness people complain about the furlough but potentially my dm is catching spreading the virus getting to work .
My db also worked throughout in a office gets public transport he’s never had a wfh option ( financial services) so it really gets my goat that so many of us have had to stay home not see family / friends jobs suffer / mental health/ education etc but yeah let employers make staff work when not essential or can be done from home . So yeah I do resent it and quite frankly I don’t care anymore.

“People that are making these rule breaks are undoubtedly having a much nicer time of things than those who are sticking to the law all the time. It's hard to struggle day after day, and see other people around you not bothering for no particular reasons, other than the ones that everyone has, and being much better off as a result of this. And as people see others breaking the rules, they'll think it's ok for them to do it too ... and then people break bigger rules and it all spirals.

It was great when there was a "we're all in it together" mentality. Only now clearly some people are more "in it" than others.”

Completely agree. It’s those who follow the rules who suffer, and that’s why people get upset.Those who think they are entitled to make risk their own risk assessments are doing so from a selfish point of view. Why am I following all these rules and staying miserable when the lady next door doesn’t give a toss anymore because she’s decided “enough is enough”. Why do people think they are special?

Why do this for a whole year only to throw in the towel when things START to look better. We’re in a precarious position, in a few weeks things could look very different.

I think because every tiny rule break, which people have done because they have 'risk assessed' it for themselves, can very possibly lead to transmission. Even those who have been careful and who have only went out of the house for essentials ie shopping, medical appointment, are at risk of catching it from people who aren't being careful.

I'm not overly fussed about the odd, one off, carefully thought out bending of the rules but I can understand why other are.

People can't be trusted to make the best decision for the population as a whole

Totally agree, some people can't see or don't care about the bigger picture.

It's because these seemingly small things can have an impact and if everyone takes the view that it's okay to just do x then it all adds up the virus spreading and some people are seriously ill or worse with the illness and that's not small thing if it impacts you or someone you love.

I think ChiefBabySniffer 's post nicely sums up why people are offended.

Yes, it was important for her daughter's mental health to see her friends. But why was it more important for her and her friends to meet than any other group of 12 year olds?

And, why would an outside socially distanced meet-up not have helped from a mental health perspective? Why did the girls have to hug and meet indoors?

Also when it was relaxed last year that you can meet 6 people, people were meeting potentially 6 different people every day when it should be don’t mix with more than 2 households.
So people were potentially meeting 42 people a week plus going to work . If those 42 people met 42 people and so on and they wondered why the rates increased. All along I said just be able to see the 2 households I think Scotland did similar but no the government don’t think then blame us .

I do t know why sitting apart I. Your garden was ever not allowed. Absolutely rudiculous and I've never stopped doing it actually nothing wrong with having a chat distanced In your garden !

I think mental health is important but it's a very convenience excuse for those who have been vaccinated and therefore "I'm alright Jack" when they could still be putting others at risk with their actions.

Because another person died early today.

"There was so much emotions at them all being together we weren’t going to stop them hugging. They have been SO careful and responsible for the last year. The birthday girls mum hesitantly cashed me and said “ please don’t think I’m being an irresponsible monster but can she come into our house for cake? Just my daughter and the three girls as it’s started raining “

Of course I said yes. And three hours later when my daughter called, sounding deliriously happy and hearing her friends laughing in the back ground I knew id made the right choice. Can she have a sleep over? I’ll drop the pjs off now."

You've perfectly explained why one small rule break snowballs into a situation where perfect conditions for passing the virus on.

The girls walked together - small rule break
Went into the garden - small rule break, becoming more relaxed.
Hugs - social distancing completely out of the window
Pop in for cake - bigger rule break, relatively small
Popping in for cake takes 3 hours - risk of transmission is high if anyone is asymptomatic.
Yay, sleepover - anyone now infected will have a much higher viral load and chance of worse illness. Anyone not infected during the 3 hour cake visit probably will be now.
Go home - to 4 different households, one with CEV parent who could now become severely ill and need hospitalisation.

Sleepovers by teenagers were identified as a cause of spread. This is exactly the type of behaviour that is helping to drag this out for everyone.

@okokok000

Maybe it is because people are still catching it despite following the rules. I followed the rules and was generally very careful. Despite this I managed to catch it having left the house once for a 20 minute trip to pick up some groceries. I've been quite ill (not had a mild version) for a number of weeks now and it's not showing any signs of going away.

Shouldn't this be an example of why minor rule breaking doesnt matter?

You can follow the rules down to the letter, but you need essentials and can pick up the virus.

So what is the point in exercising with 1 person instead of 2 when people are catching the virus in supermarkets and hospitals.

I expect it's not so much "power trips" as people who've stuck to the rules and sacrificed for it pissed off with those who don't because they aren't seeing a 'little' rule break, they're seeing the family they can't spend time with, the holiday they couldn't go on, the impact of restrictions on them and Joan down the road who went to the park for a picnic with three people is the last straw. It's not actually about Joan personally so much as it is about a year of utter crapness and feeling pissed off.