I genuinely don't get why people are so offended by small rule breaks at this point

[Flower234]

I'm not trying to be goady and this is not a thread about a thread, but inspired by admittedly

So basically, 1/3 or there abouts (maybe more?) have had first vaccine which we now KNOW reduces transmission. Everything is trending downwards. We've been doing this for a year- Many of us are financially, mentally and emotionally drained, but things are looking up. It's safer than it's been in a while, and it's time to consider 'opening up. I'm not anti-lockdown, but I am pro proportionate covid restrictions with the minimum restrictions to liberty necessary.

That said, how do some people genuinely take time out of their day to have a go at people for the tiniest rule breaks which will make NO impact or very little impact on transmission?

Like a single person going to a second home, someone meeting two people outside instead of one, someone driving an hour to meet a partner they haven't seen in four months for a walk... All genuine examples I've seen people go irate over

It scares me how quickly people will cite "the rules," even if they are nonsensical. Some of my 'friends' would scream at me for meeting two people outside today but if the gov said you could meet thirty people indoors tomorrow legally, would go to a house party no question.

I suppose my question is does anyone else feel like people use "because the government made it a rule" as a reason to control and rebuke others, without any aspect of critical thinking or actual science? They're not scared of covid- They don't care about transmission. They just like the powertrip.

Does anyone else feel they know a lot of people like this?

I agree completely. People on the one hand getting all worked up because two families have gone on a walk together, outside the whole time. Then we have threads with people still asking questions about how long they need to isolate for this is really basic stuff, we’ve been told the incubation period can be up to 14 days for almost a year now and there are still people thinking you can test your way out of isolation. Plus all the parents who apparently sent their kids into school when a there was a positive case in the household. These are the major rules that have been driving transmission. Get track and trace/ isolation adhered to properly , this is what will make the most difference, not blaming people for going more than 5 miles from their homes/ to NT type places etc.

The annoying bit is some people thinking they are more special than everyone else and the rules don't apply to them...

Also the fact it really is very easy to spread the virus. There was a case in the Finnish press after Christmas - a Finnish person living in the UK went to visit family and friends in Finland for Christmas. Didn't do the quarantine on arrival and instead started meeting up with lots of friends/family. As a result at least 30 of her close contacts tested positive (it was one of the first cases of the "Kent variant" in Finland) and a further 400 people were identified as close contacts of the 30 and had to isolate to stop it spreading any further. It really shows the impact of just one person ignoring the rules.

People go OTT about tiny things because that's what they can see, and what they feel they can do something about. They know they can't do anything about hospital transmission, or quarantine, or government procedure. But they feel like they can shout at people and make a difference.

I don't think rule breaking itself is the problem, just that some people announcing that they broke the rules like an achievement and others applauding as if they have done something great, makes me feel meh.

I'm not an epidemiologist, no- But even looking at epidemiologists there are so many different opinions. But whatever stance you take, lockdown fatigue is happening and there's nothing to do to combat that except have a clear game plan.

I disagree with both these points:

1. There really is very littel disagreement amongst epidemiologists - a little like climate change the dissenting voices are mostly fringe

2. compliance reamians very high in the UK whatever anecdotal information people claim to have

ugh: littel = little

For me, it’s about the power of the collective. And the trust we put in others in society to do the right thing. If we all ‘just’ did this or that, it adds up to an awful lot and jeopardises what we’ve all achieved with lockdowns.

It’s also disrespectful to those who are still following the rules.

I've kept to the rules all the way through, I do get frustrated when Zoe people seem to completely disregard them when I'm keeping them but I also agree they are OTT and don't take into account personal circumstances.

I have children with additional needs, my mum is also disabled. We live a few doors away from each other. We haven't seen mum in months other than Christmas because the few occasions we were officially allowed to see her the children were in school and it would be too big a risk.

Right now, I'm home, my husband is home, the children are home. We don't leave, we do click and collect for groceries, my parents don't leave. My husband has had Covid and my Dad has had the vaccine. Our risk to each other is extremely low, it will go higher once the children go back to school.

My mothers mental health is suffering from not seeing the children, I haven't had a minute away from the children in a year, they don't sleep well, I am averaging 3 hours a night. It makes so much sense to visit each other now. My husband will be retuning to in work work (if that makes sense) soon, children will go back soon.

All of my children just adore my mum (and dad) and miss her, we are used to,before Covid, to seeing them pretty much daily.

So it annoys me just because I want to be doing it but I know we will be the ones that get caught and fined. Whereas our risk to each other is as low as it can possibly be. They have just as much risk getting Covid from a delivery as they do from us.

Yanbu op it's ridiculous.

At say 400k per day around half of those vaccinated must be passed 21 days now if my mental maths is correct

Yes, that roughly correct, 3 weeks ago the vaccinated number was around 9 million people or about 14% of the total population, so that would mean 86% of the population does not yet have immunity via vaccination, based on allowing 3 weeks for immunity to develop.

Current figure is around 26% of the population, so in 3 weeks time around 74% of the population will not yet have immunity via vaccination.

(Obviously a percentage of the population will already have some prior immunity from natural infection.)

That said, how do some people genuinely take time out of their day to have a go at people for the tiniest rule breaks which will make NO impact or very little impact on transmission?

Because they believe the way to soothe their own anxiety is to control the behaviour of others. Because they do not understand that the way to collective responsibility means them and not their neighbour.

Everyone I know broke the rules at Christmas (London). I wasn't going too even though I hadn't planned to have it at home. However after seeing more & more neighbours leaving my road (usual christmas behaviour) I thought fuck it.
My risk assessment deemed it safe - we had self isolating for 2 wks (we were doing this anyway) & unlike my neighbours no travel as Im a Londoner & it's a 10 min walk to my parents.
But we know what happened after Christmas don't we?

I live by myself in a small flat with no garden and haven't seen any of my friends or family for a year (they're shielding / it was illegal etc).

As a Manchester resident I've either been in lockkdown or in Tier 3 for the majority of the crisis.

I spent Christmas day alone.

I've missed the birth of my nephew and my niece's 2nd birthday.

I've had to defer my July holiday twice now.

I cannot see my 86 year old grandad who is seriously ill.

I'm also a TA and have worked throughout the pandemic. Many of my colleagues have been ill with Covid and 1 has even died.

But go on, break the rules, you're obviously so much more special and important than everyone else. That's the crux of the issue. People don't just see a minor rule break, they also see the attitude and belief that motivates it.

People will find reasons and excuses but the truth is everyone could find those same reasons and excuses. Do you not think I could say my mental health has been effected? It has been.

Do I use that as an excuse to break the law? No.

"I wasn't going too even though I hadn't planned to have it at home. However after seeing more & more neighbours leaving my road (usual christmas behaviour) I thought fuck it."

And the knock on effect is that other people see you doing it (who haven't isolated for two weeks) and think fuck it.

Don't kid yourself that you're not part of the problem. This is why people can't "make their own risk assessments"

1h drive away from me the number are 4x my area, fairly substantial increase. Meet an extra person on a walk or indoors seems ok until in a week you have met 7 and your kids have met more suddenly that's a lot of contacts. Kids have a sleep over, it's ok as they are only little. One of the kids is in school daily transmitions happen both ways.
They seem small and in the grand scheme of things insignificant, but, if everyone does these small things it esculates.
Yes things are crap just now but we are less than a month away from most adult vulnerable people have their protection from 21 days since vaccine. When potentially spoil it now?

@Randomschoolworker19

It sounds like you've had a really tough time of it but even within the rules there are opportunities to meet with people? You could form a support bubble? And/or exercise with one other person outside?

I agree with you entirely apart from the going to the beach bit. I live in a popular coastal town in Kent and we had 40000 people on our beaches in the summer, with total disregard for the people like us who live there. I think we need to relax the rules, but stay in our own areas.

In answer to your OP, because they have got so used to being members of the coronastasi they are enjoying the feeling of superiority now and dont want to let go of their perceived "power"

@VettiyaIruken

That is why my daughter was allowed to see her friend for her birthday. We HAVE Followed the rules up to about ten days ago. I was shielding strictly ! Then I got another letter from the government saying I’ve got to stay in until the 31st March! Despite having the first dose of the vaccine.

I got upset. I walked to the park and saw car after car of people turn up, one group was 4 cars full of adults and kids. Nobody was social distancing. I made the choice to go to Asda for a browse. Again, loads of people shopping in groups and not one person was social distancing. I called my daughters school and asked what % of students are in and it’s 47%. Why do those kids get a social life and my daughter doesn’t? Especially when schools are going back soon. And then I decided that my daughter could hug a friend (on the proviso that they were also allowed).

At this point I don’t see how it matters. The time to stop this has long gone. We have years of this ahead of us. And I’m not sacrificing my daughters mental health to it. If I have to have a secret arrangement with other parents for her to be allowed a sleep over 3-4 times a year for her friends birthdays then so be it. And I won’t Apologise. I’m not going to be going into my friends house drinking and mixing, even if is allowed. But I will let my child have a sleep over and if allowed, take her on holiday.

Mass delusional psychosis...that’s why!

A reasonable explanation here www.lewrockwell.com/2021/02/joseph-mercola/the-world-is-suffering-from-mass-delusional-psychosis/

@nordica

The annoying bit is some people thinking they are more special than everyone else and the rules don't apply to them...

Also the fact it really is very easy to spread the virus. There was a case in the Finnish press after Christmas - a Finnish person living in the UK went to visit family and friends in Finland for Christmas. Didn't do the quarantine on arrival and instead started meeting up with lots of friends/family. As a result at least 30 of her close contacts tested positive (it was one of the first cases of the "Kent variant" in Finland) and a further 400 people were identified as close contacts of the 30 and had to isolate to stop it spreading any further. It really shows the impact of just one person ignoring the rules.

But it also shows how an competent government and effective track and trace system can effectively shut down an out break. We don’t have either and this is why we are in this shit situation with people putting their lives on hold because of government dropping the ball BIG TIME. We are the laughing stock of the world and there is no end in sight with new mutations etc.

So I don’t see it as Mary’s fault, who is having three extra family members for Easter. Or Dave around the corner who is 75 and missing his mates from the legion so has 3 of them round for a beer to Mark the passing of a friend. I DO blame the government for this.

@Sunshinegirl82

Unfortunately I don't have much family left. Both my mum and dad have passed and alot of my remaining family are elderly and shielding.

My brother is of a similar age but he and the family are shielding too because my sister in law is diabetic and vulnerable. Similarly my step mum is elderly, diabetic and asthmatic.

Most of my friends are either too busy with work (NHS / police /school), live too far away to meet regularly, or have their own bubbles already.

I know what you mean. Fwiw we are part of the ons covid survey. My husband came back positive, I was negative. We all later got cold like symptoms. I asked if I could have another test as my husband was self isolating from us in the house and I wanted to know if it was necessary, and if I needed to distance from DC. I was told that I couldn't take the test because I didn't have the right symptoms.

Point being, if we were not part of the ons survey none of us would have had the correct symptoms to take the covid test and would have been able to carry on life as normal. Think how many people in the UK now have a cold and it might easily be covid. They cannot take a test because they don't have the correct three symptoms. That's why lock downs like this don't really work, not when people aren't eligible for testing when they exhibit symptoms of things like colds.

I get upset as it seems so unfair we are making the sacrifices while others just carry on as normal. The teacher above is particularly disappointing - if the school staff are introducing more risk it isn't good for anyone. We have roles that involve being close to people so it's even more important we don't increase our, and therefore, their, risk.